Bulgarian loadings


#1

Pete
I just got your note I am little lost on this one since this is a while ago however if you wish I can send pics
but I can assure you what I have is a Bulgarien round copper clad metal round nosed bullet I still have the
original sticker on it and it says 11+57R Bulgarien Head Stamp /V/4 81/Mx The Blank and yes that is what it
is has a punched primer but no stamp a wood bullet held by 1 stab crimp.Pete if you wish to persue this a
little further you have to jog my memory a little
Sherryl


#2

Dear Sherryl.
Why do you keep identifying Inert/Dummy/Drill rounds as “Blanks”???

Blanks are a Case Loaded with Primer and a charge of fast Burning Powder, with NO Bullet (or a Paper or hollow wooden one, which fragments on firing, to allow a Flash and “Bang” to occur on firing during Parade and Funeral Salutes, for field training of Troops (“Manoevres”) and as a Warning device.

Drill rounds (ExercierPatrone) are totally INERT Dummy cartridges, with Bullet, for drill and training Purposes on Rifle/MG handling.

As I don’t know your Native Language, could it be a “Mistranslation/Mis-interpretation” of the Terms…

As to your 11x57R…I think it may be mis-identified…could be a French Made 10,6x57R Russian Berdan Cartridge( which Bulgaria used as well) or even a 11x59R Gras cartridge.

It is definitely a “Training Dummy”, it is Inert, and is NOT a “Blank”.

Regrads,
Doc AV


#3

Also, why do you continue to address public post messages in the forum to Pete, why not just send him a private-message through the forum, or a direct email?


#4

Sherryl
The private e-mail I sent had a link to the post it was about. Please re-check the message I sent & your questions here, and on that old thread, will be answered.

You should have replied to that & not here, as Matt notes.

Also regarding your description, as DocAV49 notes, it does sound more like a wood-bullet dummy, & not a blank.

Pictures are not needed, but thanks


#5

DocAv49
That is precisely what it is a case with a snapped primer and hollow wooden bullet and as to the cal no they are not
Gras rounds they are Bulgarian for sure
Sherryl


#6

Pete
Thanks for your note yes I should have done what you suggested however most of my mistakes stem from my ineptness with a computer
However that Bulgarien blank is a blank it was fired but did not go off that is why the primer is punched.Now I like to say something to you
I know the difference between a dummy and blank very well however over a live time I developed a very nasty habit that all cartridges
that do not fire I simply called them blanks!I know also that I should not do this it had never really mattered before it only became a killing
matter with this forum yes regarding corresponding with the forum I should train my self to live by the terminologie used.And you know
when you are 82 things sometimes go a bit to shits. I do assure you those 2 rounds are Bulgarien
Peter


#7

Sherryl
Still not a PM. But never mind.


#8

Sherryl (or Peter, as you signed off the last post)
Congrats on being 82 years old (I hope to last that long). The 7th symbol above my writing, the thing which looks like an arrow pointing up, is for attaching photos. In Germany number 7 is a sign of luck (gluck). If you attach fotos to you post, it will help everyone. Viel gluck.


#9

sksvlad
Thank you for your kind words,and your willingness to help I just learnt to transfer those pictures
but tis whole computer business is a continued struggle and I do think the aggravation is not worth
anymore.I wish you viel,viel Glueck for the rest of your days and above else to find a few good ones
Sherryl


#10

Just to end this post I’ve sent Peter instructions on how to reply to a PM so his difficulty with this portion of the forum can be resolved.

I really wish there were a set of how-to’s at the top of the forum, it would save a lot of frustration to folks on how to delete a thread, reply to a PM, edit & other things which to some of the folk, are just not relatively evident.

And here was the PM from the questions / comments portion of this site I’d sent Peter that started this re-hash. It was about a question he had on an IAA SLICS auction lot he had found in a IAA journal from several years ago, and which seemed to me as just a typo.


#11

Sherryl, Congrats on making 82 years of age! Enjoy this hobby. Your friend from Minnesota: Tom D.


#12

tomdokulil https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/u/tomdokulil
August 25
Sherryl, Congrats on making 82 years of age! Enjoy this hobby. Your friend from Minnesota: Tom D.

Visit Topic https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/bulgarien-loadings/25405/11 or reply to this email to respond.

To unsubscribe from these emails, click here https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/email/unsubscribe/a73045300ef07b33c26dbcf488b1e4bcb3e890264f76b626cba22235629768e5.


#13

tomdokulil
Thank you for your wishes,I once worked in your State shortly an remember its nice people part of my own
Familia was once American Milwaukee I wish you the best too and hope you find lots of good ones
Sherryl


#14

Hi Sherryl,
Came upon your post while searching for answers on a particular headstamp.

I am reasonably certain the cartridge, photographs appended below, is the 11x57R Bulgarian Rifle.

Dimensions in mm:

Bullet diameter: 11.05
Case length: 57.00
Rim: 16.05
Case diameter immediately adjacent to Rim: 13.33

Cartridge described: Cartridges for Collectors, by Fred A. Datig, Vol-3: Page74

The headstamp on my example is the same as seen on your cartridge.

Regards,

Sam3


#15

Hi Sam3
I am pleased you found that one now I hope you can find a matching blank to it that would be nice
The one I have has a snapped primer and no STAMP but to my info these Bulgarien rounds are not
that easy to find anymore wish you the best
Sherryl


#16

As far as I know, these cartridges has never been confirmed as being a contract for Bulgaria. Datig also reported that Berdan rifles of this caliber were stored at the Belgian Ancion Marx house -later reported to be Kynoch Patent rifles in 11.15x50 R Mauser- and that there were packets of these cartridges identified as being for Bulgaria.

Also, although they are called “11 x 57 R Bulgarian Berdan”, they are not dimensionally different from a .43 Spanish Remington cartridge with full metal brass jacketed bullet made by SFM (from boxes labeled “Balle enveloppe laiton”).

Regards,

Fede


#17

Fede,
Many thanks for your reply.

I tried to make a table with the dimensions of my; ‘proposed measured 11 x57R Bulgarian,’ to compare with the F.A Datig published data and the {11.15 Spanish Remington from (Cartridges of the World 9th Ed)}.
Unfortunately, I found it difficult to maintain a table in this text window.

I believe the measured dimensions, of my example, correspond most closely with those quoted by: F.A. Datig. (Cartridges for Collectors, Vol-3.) for the 11 x57R Bulgarian Rifle.

However; I believe your last paragraph carries significant weight because; the cartridge has what appears to be a bullet with; “full metal brass jacket…” and has a definite French look to the cartridge base… initially I thought it was French.

If F.A. Datig had the information from your last paragraph, to hand, would he have named the cartridge .43 Spanish Remington?

What would have been the motivation for SFM to make such an obscure headstamp?


#18

Hi Sam,

The so-called “Bulgarian” cartridges with dated headstamps predate the formation of the SFM and were made by Gévelot. Known headstamp dates range from 1876 to 1882, with different letters at 12 o’clock.

The ones later made by SFM are headstamped S.F.MGG ☆ and clearly identified by the boxes as .43 Spanish Remington cartridges with brass jacketed bullets, as mentioned above.

You can also find .43 Spanish Remington cartridges by Gévelot with a different case construction -flat base instead of raised-, lead bullet and dated headstamps. In my country, a long time user of the Remington Rolling Block in this caliber, you can find examples with G / 75 / Mx / 4 / and G / 78 / Mx / 1 / headstamp, but they are very scarce and may have arrived from one of the neighboring countries.

Regards,

Fede


#19

Fede, so all these “Mx” headstamps are all .43 Spanish Remington rounds then?


#20

Hi Fede
As usual one cannot argue with your research but than I must repeat EOD question what do we call
this stinker??Now as you know the Spanish Mauser cartridge on this end of the pond is still not much
of a problem but they are all unstamped the only exception is the one made by WRA.Co you find one
of these and you will have a very happy day.
Sherryl