Cal 30 ID Needed


#1

Headstamp is F A 6 08
Bullet is CN 220 grain Hudson
Powder charge is 12.5 grains duPont #80

An ID would be great. SWAG’s accepted too.

Anyone have one like this, or seen one?

Thanks

Ray


#2

Ray,

No idea what you have. It’s not listed in Marcello’s Vol 2 or 3. Maybe I can join the club.

Here is what I have:
Fromt Top to Bottom

LC 43 nickel primer, plated brass case, nonmagnetic bullet, no powder

RA 18 nickel primer w/hole, plated brass case, bullet takes a magnet, no powder

U.S.C.Co * 18 * Ring Crimp brass primer, blackened brass case, non-magnetic bullet

I would like to know the history/significance (if any) of these as well.

Pat


#3

Pat

My collecting specialty is far removed from the Cal .30 and 30-06, and the knowledge of the experts on this Forum, so I can’t say what your cartridges might be. Maybe one of them can answer.

Are you sure that the two cases are plated rather than tinned or stannic stained?

Ray


#4

Walter Hudson was a dentist from Brooklyn, NY. He was apparently more interested in rifles, bullets & cartridges than dentistry. He was one of the country’s leading marksmen circa 1900-1915 and set some match records that were not equaled for more than a century. Even today, those of us who are serious Schuetzen riflemen shoot “the Hudson Match” every election day. Most of Hudson’s shooting was with single-shot Schuetzen rifles, but he also competed as a civilian in military-type matches with both the Krag and the New Springfield. His particular forte was offhand or standing position, but he also was a recognized master of the prone position.

Dr Hudson designed several bullets, mostly lead (for the .32-40 and .38-55) but also a couple for the .30-40 Krag (.30 US Army), .30-03 and .30-06. A century later, you can still buy lead alloy Hudson bullets and the bullet moulds for them. I do not know who made jacketed bullets of Hudson design, but they could be purchased at least through the 1920s.

Hudson had a large following and many shooters copied his loads. The 12.5 grain load of DuPont SR80 is a bit light for target shooting at 100 or 200 yards. The velocity of the bullet should be under the speed of sound. The “standard” target load for SR80 was 18.0 grains. That extended the usable range to 300 meters. The primer may be of US commercial manufacture or it may be a standard FA-70.

I believe SR80 was first made in 1913 and last made in 1939.

I think what you have is a serious target shooter’s handload using a US military cartridge case, not a major factory production item per se. It is not intended as a military load. Rather, it is intended to allow the shooter to use a 1903 Springfield and win a shooting competition, intended only to punch holes in paper with minimal recoil and muzzle blast. My guess as to the age of the cartridge as assembled is 1915 to the late 1920s. After WW1, there were huge quantities of pointed jacketed bullets available as surplus and the 220 grain roundnose bullets were no longer in fashion.

This month’s issue of the Single Shot Rifle Journal has a photo of Dr. Hudson on the cover and an article about some of his travels in 1905-1906.


#5

Ray,

On further inspection you are correct, RA 18 case is tinned, not sure of the LC 43, appears to be a very uniform soft zinc-like finish.

Pat


#6

Waterman

Thanks for that very interesting reply and mini-bio of Dr Hudson and his bullets.

My bullet was identified by another Forum member who has boxes of Hudson bullets made by both UMC and WRA. I’m almost 100% convinced I have the WRA version.

You are right that duPont SR #80 powder was not made until 1913. I don’t know how I let that slip by me. I usually check things like that very closely. That fact does change some of my assumptions completely. Cal .30 Gallery cartridges using #80 powder did not appear until after WW1 whereas cartridges made before the War used Hercules Lightning #1 or similar powder.

So, maybe mine is a match or competition handload using a new F.A. case. Or, it could be a dingbat. I prefer the former.

Thanks again. Your posts are always enlightening.

Ray


#7

[quote=“Flectarn”]Ray,

On further inspection you are correct, RA 18 case is tinned, not sure of the LC 43, appears to be a very uniform soft zinc-like finish.

Pat[/quote]

Pat

I suffer from narrow-brain syndrome. I tend to look at things in a very narrow way, sometimes missing the obvious. Your comment that the cases are “plated” is obviously correct. “Tinned” could mean the coating was electroplated, or stained using a chemical process. Either way you could correctly say that they are plated, or tinned.

Am I making any sense??

Ray


#8

Ray, I don’t have information about your cartridge, but I thought that you and Randy may like these Winchester ads from October, 1904; I believe that they are the first to mention the Hudson .30-40 cal. bullet. Regards, Fede.


#9

Flectarn:

THE CARTRIDGE WITH THE RA 18 HEADSTAMP HAS A BULLET THAT APPEARS TO HAVE A SLIGHTLY RAISED RING WHERE THE BULLET MEETS THE CASE MOUTH. IF THIS IS SO, YOU MAY BE ABLE TO EASILY PULL THE BULLET FOR INSPECTION. IF THE BASE OF THE BULLET IS NOT CRIMPED OVER, IT IS LIKELY THAT IT WAS DESIGNED TO HOLD A SHORT PENCIL. AFTER THE END OF WORLD WAR I, MANY EXCESS CARTRIDGE CASES WERE FITTED WITH HOLLOW BULLETS AND THINGS LIKE PENCILS, KNIFE BLADES, ETC. WERE PLACED IN THE BASE OF THE BULLET. NICKEL PLATING THE CASE WAS DONE TO MAKE THEM SELL BETTER.