Cal. .30 LR I.D


#1

The subject at hand has a GMCS bullet on a 49mm case and weighs 373 grains. Headstamp is “FA 48”. As the case features are identical to a 49mm length case with an “FA 49” headstamp, I figure the case to be a FAT1E1 and unless the T104 Steel Core featured the GMCS jacket, I am inclined to call this one a T65E2 Ball. Do I have this right or could it be something else as well?

Thanks,
Dave E.


#2

Dave

If you are positive the case is a T1E1, then it’s a T65E2 cartridge.

The only thing that requires extra special attention to details is the measurement of the rim and extractor groove. There is not much difference between the T1 and the T1E1. Both can be found with the FA 48 headstamp.

The T104 has the T11 bullet which is GM with steel core and a smooth cannelure.

Ray


#3

Thanks Ray,

I had it as a T104 but following the “Ray Meketa’s Guide to Pre-NATO Ammunition” (best you’ll get 'till HWS III) the indicators were not right and I started thinking I had it listed wrong. The only reason I’m confident it’s an FAT1E1 case is that under magnified comparison (8x) it is the same as an “FA 49” cased item I have in the rim/groove area which, if I follow the “Guide” correctly, would not be the T1. You also added here that the T11 projectile had a smooth cannelure which is not the case on this specimen.

This detective stuff is fun but I’ll bet not as fun as tearing one apart to see for sure. If I had more than one (and the sand)…

Dave


#4

I also have a couple of the 1948 dated rounds that, like Dave, I have attributed as T65E2, mostly because that’s the way they were described when I bought them from Jim Tillinghast years ago. A whole lot of Jim’s stuff came out of the original boxes; whether or not these did I don’t know. I am like Fox News – “We report, you decide”!!

edited to show additional cartridge


#5

T1 cases without the * and T1E1 cases with the * are not often seen, so you can almost bet on Dave’s case being a T1E1.

A couple of years ago I found a T1E1 with an FA 50 headstamp. It was verified as authentic by Col. Hackley.

Opening boxes and removing cartridges is a collectors worst enemy. Even if they are labeled, the ink can eventually wear off. And, you have to remember, 20 years ago even the most knowledgeable collectors were not aware of the minor differences between cases such as the T1 and T1E1. And we’re bound to know a lot more 20 years from now than we do now.

Ray


#6

Ray said:

I’m bound to know more every few minutes than I did before around here!

Phil’s excellent presentation of the progression of things leaves me curious about the T11 projectile. With the bullet seated that deep on the T104E1 I can’t tell if the cannelure is knurled or not. Phil’s text indicates it is, Ray has suggested it should be smooth (at least when loaded on a T104). Do they come in both flavors?

Thanks, as always, for the great information.

Dave


#7

Dave

The bullet on the F A 49 T104E1 (as I call it) is seated right to the top of the cannelure but by looking down into the mouth you can see the knurling. It definitely is a GM steel core bullet - non-magnetic at the tip becoming heavyly magnetic as you approach the base of the bullet. The F A 50 T104E1 smooth cannelure is visible from the side view.

I will have to do some looking to see if I have another F A T104E1 with knurled cannelure to pull and see if it also has a smooth cannelure.

edited 1 time


#8

The T11 bullet can be found in both 49mm and 51mm cases. It has a smooth cannelure.

I have an FA 49 T104E1 just like Phil’s, with a knurled cannelure. I also have an FA 49 T104E1 with a smooth cannelure. How to explain that?? I pulled the bullets. The one with the knurled cannelure actually had 2 cannelures. The original smooth one, and an added knurled one. So, they (FA ?) added the knurled cannelure so that the 49mm T11 bullet could be used in the 51mm case.

I cannot say if Phil’s has 2 cannelures. Only he can tell us - if he chose to pull the bullet.

Never say never, and never say always.

Ray


#9

Phil and Ray,

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I wasn’t thinking about the extra 2mm worth of case with the same approx. OAL. Makes perfect sense and adds to my growing arsenal of information on the subject.

Dave


#10

My thread was intended to be Identifying the Cal .30 LR Cartridges 101. It does not cover every known variation, even if I presumed to know all of them. Which I don’t.

Ray