"Carbide tip" winchester 7.62x51 - probably not


#1

Is there some sort of top-secret super-AP 7.62x51 that Winchester is making now? I had doubted it, but after emailing this seller he has not responded after a few days. I assume these loads are nothing more than just the steel jacket type 147gr projectiles, and have a lead core? Maybe steel core reloads or something, but he implies that they are factory-new:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=240187954


#2

I can’t see any special tip on this bullet in the picture provided. Does it have one? Looks like standard commercial Winchester “USA Brand” generic stuff to me.


#3

I have seen Winchester Q/whitebox .308 loads in a steel-jacketed 149gr (rather than 147gr) lately; these have had a little quiet press since they are a ‘spec’ load for the new LMT .308 for the UK MoD.

Haven’t seen any current or recent commercial .308, Winchester or otherwise, resembling an AP or ‘carbide’ tip.


#4

The box shown is not generally used by Winchester for anything other than their “generic” USA Brand of commercial ammunition. Winchester contract boxes are usually (not necessarily always) simply white boxes with black print. The bullet weight of 147 grains is pretty standard for much 7.62 x 51 mm military ball, I think.


#5

Just an John stated, this is just another case of the GunBroker seller BS.
Note the iten nunber on the box ends, Q3130, this is the same number Winchester has used on their generic 7.62x51mm/.308 for years.
These rounds are fmj as noted and “NOT STEEL JACKETED” as claimed.


#6

I agree with everyone else. Why would Winchester make such a round and invite legal trouble and bad publicity? Also, if it were as stated on GB, there would almost necessarily have to be some identification of special purpose, at least on the box, if not on the headstamp or bullet tip. It’s fraud on the part of whoever listed it.

I do know of at least one situation in which Winchester manufactured a special-purpose military round, and some showed up at gun shows (I know - I brought it to Winchester’s attention). Winchester swore that none of it was sold other than to the military. However things get pilfered and find their way onto the market.

I notice today the news that FFL dealers in US States bordering Mexico must, by BATFE decree, report sales of more than one “Assault Rifle” at a time to the same purchaser. Wonder if that applies to BATFE itself, as apparently they are the largest purveyor of such weapons to the narco cartels, at taxpayer expense no less? I am surprised BATFE did not include such reporting for ammunition sales also. More than one round purchased, and your name goes on the list.


#7

[quote=“DennisK”]
I do know of at least one situation in which Winchester manufactured a special-purpose military round, and some showed up at gun shows (I know - I brought it to Winchester’s attention). [/quote]
Hopefully after you bought a few boxes of it for trading with other collectors?


#8

No, I already had some of it.


#9

What was the cartridge?


#10

It looks like some poor guy went for it and bid really high on it. He won it for $225.00! I emailed the winning bidder through his identical user name on Ebay since Gunbroker doesn’t allow random emails between users outside of auctions (hate that about GB). I warned him about it and referred him to this thread. If the seller had just had more info, a dissected bullet, or had answered my 2 emails then it would have satisfied, but no… I also emailed the second place bidder via Ebay and warned him.


#11

Just cannot emphasize enough the term “Buyer Beware”. I just did a very fast check of a couple of the larger on-line dealers of ammunition and found the
Winchester 147gr. fmj. #Q3130, selling for as low as $12.13 per 20. I hope DK’s message to the buyer rattled some ones gray matter.


#12

I’m not sure I would have gone so far as to e-mail the buyer, unless it was a friend or someone I knew well. I would consider it none of my business otherwise.

I also don’t see the appropriateness of posting this information on the Forum. It’s the kind of thing I would have been scolded for in the past. But, I guess Moderators can do things that others cannot.

JMHO

Ray


#13

Ray - I’m not privy to any of the exact reasons that people were warned in the past in the forum, and I have only edited a couple things thus far as a moderator such as double posts, or the odd inappropriate word. My post here is about ammo, there’s nothing too snarky or critical, and everything shown is from a publicly viewable online space (GB). It’s a warning to people, and a question about the nature of the ammo. I emailed the buyer purely as an altruistic act because I felt bad for him. I was careful to not sound 100% definitive in my warning since there is a .01% chance that it might be some stolen super-AP experimental ammo or whatever… but I warned him anyway. I didn’t mean to seem as if I’m posting beyond the typically given rules.


#14

I find it hard to believe that any Forum member still breathing is unaware of the Moderator/Member brouhaha of the recent past. Needless to say, it caused hard feelings on both sides and resulted in several members quitting both the Forum and IAA. I’m not inclined to open those old wounds but your post deserved some mention, by me at least.

While Posts 1 thru 9 were clearly cartridge/collecting related, #10 was about Gun Broker, a buyer, a seller, a price, and your emails. The cartridge aspect of it was obviously secondary. A year ago, this type of post would have been edited or censured and the poster reprimanded. Trust me, I know this for a fact.

I’m still of the opinion that negotiations between buyers and sellers on the various auction sites is none of my business, unless I happen to be one of them. Injecting my self into their dealings is not something I would do, altruistic or otherwise. That’s the Government’s job. ;)

JMHO

Ray


#15

I agree with Ray on this subject.

Glenn