Carcano 6.5×52mm B.P 17 SMI * 17 Original Box 2 full clips

General Ammunition Discussion
#1

I came across this box of Italian Carcano ammo which I believe is from WWI. Original box with Italian writing, two clips with 6 rounds each. Rounds have head stamp B.P B 17 and clip is marked SMI *17. I’m no expert but believe these are very rare. I was going to hang on to these but I’m debating selling them since I don’t have the rifle to go with it on display. I’m having issues getting access to post in the buy & sell forum so I figured I’d post this to see if there’s interest 1st and any additional information you all can give me.

Much appreciated.

Pete




#2

It is an older box, but the lid is missing and the condition is pretty bad. The rounds aren’t rare at all. Not sure about the scarcity of the clip markings, but 6.5 Carcano clips are very far from “very rare”. Always nice to have if you need them for the collection, but don’t plan on retiring from the proceeds.

#3

I don’t think I’ll ever be able to retire haha but I appreciate the information.

#4

Given the Dates, Clip type, Packet, etc, the ensemble is “uncommon”.

The amount of WW I Italian Ammo still in existence today is small ( 1930s and 1940s dates are “common”) due to being used up during the 20s and 30s in Colonial matters (Pacification of Libya, 1914-1928) and of course, Abyssinian War, 1935-36, and SCW (1936-39).)

Clip is “tin-plated steel”, a WW I expedient ( brass is “Common”, tin-plated steel is not.). Date of clip matches dates of Cartridges (17), so convalidates WW I supply. (SMI Clip, Societa’ Metallurgica Italiana, and B-17, Bologna Pyrotechnic Factory cartridge.)

Packet is in “Poor” Condition, and should have THREE Clips in it ( 18 rounds). Printing is WW I normal Production, with “B.P.” inspector’s Initials, (?Pietro Boragine?) at the Bologna Plant.
The Label reads “Caricatori di Latta”—“Tinplate chargers” so is Matching the contents.

Packet also reads “Per Fucile e Mitragliatrice”— “For Rifle and MG”…The MG of the time was the Revelli M1914. ( although there were also some Colt M1914 Potato-Diggers, and some M1906 Vickers as well, in specialised Units (Navy Coastal Artillery and Armoured Car squadrons).

TO go with a Period collection ( pre-WW I and WW I rifles and Carbines, these would be Ideal…although a Full Packet in good condition would be preferable…

As to “shootability” these old cartridges will be “Kaputt”…the Primers go first. The Powder is probably OK; cases may fracture on firing as well. Best left as a complete collectible…“They ain’t making them that way any more” ( or any other way either!!!.)

Nice historical Artifact.

Doc AV

#5

[quote=“DocAV”]Given the Dates, Clip type, Packet, etc, the ensemble is “uncommon”.

The amount of WW I Italian Ammo still in existence today is small ( 1930s and 1940s dates are “common”) due to being used up during the 20s and 30s in Colonial matters (Pacification of Libya, 1914-1928) and of course, Abyssinian War, 1935-36, and SCW (1936-39).)

Clip is “tin-plated steel”, a WW I expedient ( brass is “Common”, tin-plated steel is not.). Date of clip matches dates of Cartridges (17), so convalidates WW I supply. (SMI Clip, Societa’ Metallurgica Italiana, and B-17, Bologna Pyrotechnic Factory cartridge.)

Packet is in “Poor” Condition, and should have THREE Clips in it ( 18 rounds). Printing is WW I normal Production, with “B.P.” inspector’s Initials, (?Pietro Boragine?) at the Bologna Plant.
The Label reads “Caricatori di Latta”—“Tinplate chargers” so is Matching the contents.

Packet also reads “Per Fucile e Mitragliatrice”— “For Rifle and MG”…The MG of the time was the Revelli M1914. ( although there were also some Colt M1914 Potato-Diggers, and some M1906 Vickers as well, in specialised Units (Navy Coastal Artillery and Armoured Car squadrons).

TO go with a Period collection ( pre-WW I and WW I rifles and Carbines, these would be Ideal…although a Full Packet in good condition would be preferable…

As to “shootability” these old cartridges will be “Kaputt”…the Primers go first. The Powder is probably OK; cases may fracture on firing as well. Best left as a complete collectible…“They ain’t making them that way any more” ( or any other way either!!!.)

Nice historical Artifact.

Doc AV[/quote]

I really appreciate you very detailed information. The research I did also told me these were WWI and fairly uncommon, I guess I shouldn’t have said rare but from what I read these were a good find. Again–I really appreciate your getting back to me and spending the time to put this together for me. I struggle selling stuff especially when I have a lot of information like you just provided that I can put with the piece. But it all depends what these would bring, I may just put back in the display case but I hope there’s a few of you that enjoy seeing them.

Pete

#6

WW1 Carcano steel clips are more uncommon than the rounds of the same period.
Still today hundreds and hundreds of these rounds can be found were WW1 battles took place as relics, and also “mint” rounds of the same period are rather common.

There have been so many Carcano cartridges made during WW1 that there was no need of large production during the '20es. Carcano BALL ammo dated from 1920 to 1929 is not so common, and I have no confirmed data about Carcano BALL ammo made from 1919 to 1921.

#7

Caro Pivi,
in 1924, SMI made large quantities of 6,5 Ball; going from the presence of this date in the Mixed Boxes of 6,5 ball ammo (50 round) sold in Australia (and the US) in the 1960s and 70s;

Then there is the sale of 56,000 ( some say 78,000) M91 rifles to a Chinese Provincial Warlord (Fujian) in 1927, with ammunition (?million rounds?)

Headstamp SMI 924 *; I also have found some other later 1920s dates of both B and C.

These surplus cartons ( Italian 50 round carton similar to the Pack for the Revelli M1914 MG) held a mixture of head-stamps, and some times two lots of same head-stamps ( 20+20,) as if they came from breaking down Breda M30 Chargers, the remaining 10 rounds in the 50 round box were other Mixed HS. This repacking was obviously done by Hand in the 1950s, in preparation for Surplus sale; the Brass 6-round clips and the 20-round Breda Chargers were then sold for Scrap ( “soluzione all’italiana”)…probably also a “legal solution” as loose ammo was not “Munizioni da Guerra,” whilst clipped ammo certainly was…

BTW, does anyone have an Original Revelli 50 round packet, with the appropriate Labels etc??? I have seen an Original Cassetto for the Revelli Loading Racks ( on GB several years ago).These were loaded before going into action (50 rounds capacity).

Saluti,
Doc AV

#8

Hi Doc,
yes, SMI made quantities of Carcano ammo during the '20es, but still some dates (1919 to 1921) remain unknown on BALL loads. Again, Carcano ammo made by Capua and Bologna from 1927 to 1930 is not rare, but I would not consider as “common” ball ammo dated from 1922 to 1926 made by Bologna and Capua ( never seen ball ammo made by B or C dated from 1919 to 1921), at least as common as ball ammo made during WW1 or during the '30es