Carcano clip markings


#1

I wonder if anyone has any ideas about the star found before the date on most Carcano clips;

I ask because some from the same maker and year are found without it;

Happy collecting, Peter


#2

Probably re - used and restored clips


#3

Possibly, but I thought the x or + mark on the latch retainer was the sign of a re-used clip;

For instance, all the 1939 SMI steel clips, of which there are many, have the star.

Peter


#4

The + is the symbol used for a clip of blank cartridges .These clips were restored for this purpose.

It is common to find clips with that symbol from the 20’s or even IWW period with later dated blank cartridges


#5

The symmetrical spacing of the star and date suggests to me that the star was stamped at the time of original manufacture. Surely a renovation process wouldn’t remove all traces of an original mark of this sort, and signs of it would be seen beneath an overstamp. The “X” mark on the other hand would have been made later to show that the clip had been renovated.

Perhaps the clips with a star were intended solely for use with drill or dummy cartridges. A similar system was used on French 3-round “Lebel” clips, where clips marked with a “X” on the base were manufactured for use exclusively with drill or dummy rounds, while repaired or renovated clips were marked with a cross, or crosses if renovated more than once.

It would be necessary to ensure that all clips carrying live rounds were undamaged and in full working order. Hence those which had been repeatedly used for training with drill rounds, and possibly damaged through misuse, could easily identified and never used for live firing. For safety, renovated clips would be used only for blank rounds.

John E


#6

Looking at those Carcano clips that I have, it’s only the ‘SMI’ made ones that have the star whereas lots of other makers have the ‘+’ mark on the latch retainer. None of my ‘SMJ’ marked ones have the star.

Peter


#7

As you can see here

worldwar.it/sito/munizioni/i … /piastrine

“a cross in the middle of the clip identifies a clip for blank cartridges”

I have a clip made by Pirotecnico di Bologna with the cross in the middle . So SMI wasn’t the only factory that used this ID symbol … Anyway , since they are promarly reused and restored clips , it is possible that clips with mixed markings were send to SMI to be charged and packeted with blank rounds


#8

[quote=“enfield56”]Looking at those Carcano clips that I have, it’s only the ‘SMI’ made ones that have the star whereas lots of other makers have the ‘+’ mark on the latch retainer. None of my ‘SMJ’ marked ones have the star.

Peter[/quote]

Peter,

I too have the star on SMI + *25 (with the cross on the central lug); and SMI *39 (steel clip in this case). I don’t see the star with any other marking but SMI.

John,

I agree that the star and SMI were part of the same stamp, not added separately or later, but why?

gravelbelly


#9

Pivi, Peter and Dave, I think we are agreed that clips with a cross have been renovated, and for safety reasons were restricted for use with blanks.

My suggestion that clips with the star were originally manufactured specifically for use with drill rounds was based solely on the French example. Has anyone seen Carcano rounds in an original packet with a starred clip? This would go some way to answering the question.

John E


#10

BI ( or BP ) + B-18 Pirotecnico di Bologna

During IWW military authorities picked up guns , cases,bombs,uniforms etc left in battlefields

Picked up clips were restored ( and if worn stained or nickeled) and reused . If SMI was the only factory that used that mark probably the relic clips were sent to SMI ( and other factorie) without considering the factory mark .So the pictured clip has been made by pirotecnico di Bologna but the cross could had been added later by SMI


#11

I also have a brass clip marked: S-B + B-16, the cross is stamped on the central lug.

gravelbelly


#12

John E asks: Has anyone seen Carcano rounds in an original packet with a starred clip? This would go some way to answering the question.

Here is one.


#13

Phil –

Thanks for posting the photos. That would seem to shoot down the Blank theory and leaves us no nearer discovering what the star means. Any more suggestions anyone?

John E


#14

Known Facts: The + mark appears on all makers clips (Renovation/recycle Mark) placed on latch bar. Do doubt here.

  • five Pointed star mark on SMI only; SMI also used this mark on ammunition Headstamps as well, notably. 1924 CASES. (TWO stars)

Whether this was a secondary plant making these clips as well (SMI had several factories, being a general Non-ferrous metals supplier, besides ammo–they also made the coin blanks for the Royal State Mint).

NB, a Single five point star on a Gov’t-made case headstamp is a sign of a Barrel Proof load, used in testing barrel Blanks and also complete rifles ( “Il '91”, publ. late 1960s).

The Five Point star is also the main emblem of the Regio Esercito (Royal Army)…could it be effectively a sign that SMI clips were “Govt property?” Has anybody got LBC or BPD with a “Star Date”?..the Military factories (Bologna, Capua) have their own marking arrangements, which automatically denotes Gov’t production (Inspector’s Initials, etc.)

An intertesting conundrum…

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#15

Having had a look at all my Carcano clips it would seem that only the one from ‘SMI’ have the star marking although there are exceptions. I have ones dated 1916, 1924, 1926 and 1927 without the star.


This last is an interesting one because the format is the same as the post 1945 ones from this maker.

Happy collecting, Peter


#16

Phil: I have a brass Carcano clip by SMI also stamped [star]37 from an original sealed packet of three clips of SMI 937 6.5 m/m ball cartridges. These cartridges were brought back from the Mediterranean theater during WW.2 by a family friend and given to my father. Jack