Carcarno ID'S


#1

I was allowed to cherry pick a non cartridge collector’s collection of cartridges he had built up over many years of shooting, and have added about 40 rounds to my collection, all headstamps that I did not have in pistol and rifle rounds, and there are more 6.5mm Carcarno to be picked through yet. so any help will be appreciated. [He was happy with what he swaped for, not cartridges]

1= T.M. B - 35
2= P.V C - 43
3= B.P.D. 949
4= A.A. C - 36
5= F.P B - 24
I have most of these headstamps listed as Italian Government Arsenals
in Bologna or Capua, I believe from past posts that the initials are of the chief inspector [reversed as per Italian military tradition] of these Arsenals.
Is there any other information available on these headstamps as I am not even sure of the Arsenals.
Terry.


#2

The arsenal “B” is Pirotecnico di Bologna. The Arsenal “C” is Capua. The “BPD” is Bombrini Parodi Delfino.

Inspector’s initials"

A.A. Aldo, Adamo
F.P. Unknown - Bologna 1923 to 1928
T.M. Unknow, Bologna 1930s
P.V Pascarello, Vincenzo - Capua 1943

Thanks to Vittorio for the information on the Inspectors.

John Moss


#3

T.M. and F.P.it is a Inspection cq. inspectors sign, Pirotecnico di Bologna, activ from 1862 til 1945


#4

Ohms - you must mean that the Pirotecnico di Bologna was active from 1862 thru 1945, not the inspectors with initials T.M. and F.P.


#5

Yes it is correct.


#6

Thank you, Looking forward to picking through the rest of his Carcano rounds to see what I come up with?
I have added a few SMI to the ever growing list of numbers such as 918,
927, etc, Does this represent the date, eg 1918 and 1927?
Out of interest, he purchased these rounds along with a surplus rifle in the sixties or early seventies, the cartridges came in 50 round cardboard boxes, he no longer has the boxes but remembers they were well packed in individual divides, but had no idea that there were mixed headstamps in the boxes!
He purchased 3 boxes, and I obtained various SMI, LN, AA,FP,TM,PV,BPD and ZG so far, and have only picked through about 1/3 of what he has.
I suggested that these would have been packed by a ammunition wholesaler
after being purchased in bulk from the Italian government, is this so?
He also reported many misfires, but this could be caused by transportation
of the initial bulk rounds by sea and on deck [pre containers].
Terry.


#7

Dear fellow Aussie…6,5 carcano ammo in Australia was almost all packed in 50 round boxes, with only a simple lable “6,5mm” on it., if at all.
This was the result of the “Repacking” and “sorting” of ALL the ammunition in Italian Inventory in 1959-1965, or so, when it was all stripped from clips (both 6 round rifle, and 20 round breda LMG) and repacked for Surplus sale. Thje (Brass) Clips were then scrapped separately.
That is why one can find 50 round boxes with "20=20=10 cartridges (ex Breda) or 8 lots of 6 cartridges Plus 2 ( packet clips) or just a mixture of loose rounds.

I bought, over the last 30 years, every 50 round box I could, and accumulated over 100 headstamp and cartridge type variations, from 1904 Ballistite (original load) right through to 1962 ( Forestry service loading), with a fair sprinkling of WW I rarities ( 918 SB ( subsidiary factory, Bologna)) and some of the Guard cartridges (various dates, as well as some Magistri Frangibles(short range target)…all these cartridges “Looked” like normal Ball rounds, and were mixed in.

original three clip packets are relatively rare in Australia, whilst the 50 round mixed boxes are common ( “Fuller’s of Sydney” offered a M91/38 with 100 rounds and one clip for $39.95 back in the 1970s…the “El Cheapo” gun on the Aussie market.
I am still finding M91/38s (and M41s) in the original Italian Cosmoline (as of last week, two of each) in the back of a lot of older Gunshops…and the ammo as well.

Regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics
Brisbane.


#8

Thanks Doc,
I remember when the carcano rifles were sold, but at the time had no interest in purchasing same, so never got to see how the surplus ammo was sold, but my guess about re-packing was formed when seeing so many headstamps from only 3 packets.
Is my second guess correct, I have always assumed that the last two numbers e.g. 31 in the 931., represented the year of manufacture.
Is this correct.
Terry.


#9

Terry, the year is “(1) 931”…The Italian ( and to a lesser extent, Portugal)
method of showing a date is to use only three digits in Headstamps and Model designations (Italy: Headstamps, Portugal “Models”) but the Italian system was ONLY for Commercial ( ie, NON-Government) Factory production…The Capua and Bologna ( and earlier Turin) Ammo factories used a two digit year date, although, for the year 1900, the three digit “900” was used. SMI, BPD, LBC, used a three digit date year, and Hirtenberger, (1936) used the full four digits.( 6,5 Carcano, 8x50R Steyr and 8x51R Lebel).
BTW, Turkey also used the “938” system for its Rifle Models in the twenties to fifties…Go figure why?

regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#10

I always assumed this, but was never certain.
Thanks Doc.