Cartridges loaded with shot


#1

I am attempting to complie a list of of cartridges which were loaded, by manufacturer, with either shot, or bullet, for example, the 38-56 WCF UMC and the 40-82 UMC.

If anyone can suggest an internet source, or perhaps know some some, it would be very much appreciated. Thus far a couple on-line auctions have been helpful.

Thanks
Ron


#2

Ron–Here are the pages from the 1910 UMC Retail Catalog showing the shot loads available from UMC:



#3

I had no idea that there could be that many, and that only from one manufacturer. Thanks so much Ron. My list groweth beyond my budget …lol

Ron.


#4

I don’t know if these are shown on the above catalog, but I have samples of them in my collection.
32 Long RF U
32 Ballard Extra Long Rem-UMC 32 E X L
38 S&W R.H.A.Co. .38 S.&W.
400 Purdy
442 Adams .442
433 Egyptian police Rem-UMC 433E-1939
44 XL Western XL
50 Carbine U.M.C. 50 . CARB.
50-70 U.M.C. SH 50-70
50-95 Express W.R.A. Co. 50-95 EX
50-110 Express W.R.A. Co 50-110 EX


#5

Also, some of the Wood Sabot Shot cartridges shown by Ron M. continued beyond the merger of Remington and UMC and will be found with REM-UMC headstamp…Also, add to Tailgunner’s list, REM-UMC 433E-1935 and REM-UMC 577S-1939…if I remember correctly…


#6

P.S…And then there were all the Winchester and Peters loads…!!!


#7

Kynoch produced the .455 in a shot version for many years.


#8

The way I read Ron’s post was that he was interested in all shot loads, by manufacturer. He mentioned UMC as an example.

If I’m correct, he/we are a long way from a complete list.

Ray


#9

Now that I’m on a monator that allows me to read Ron M’s catalog scan, I have to add 22 Short and 22 Mag rimfires to the list, along with 38spl, 357 Mag, 44 Mag and 45ACP.

At the bottom right, you can see the short and mag, along with 2-3 (depending on how you count the Colt “teleshot” also shown) varients for the 22LR
The next photo shows a few more, along with 2 varients of the 45ACP shot load


#10

I can e-mail an Excel list of 300 or so from my collection, if you’d like. I have included US and foreign, as you didn’t indicate if US was your only interest.


#11

General question on older shot loads:

Were these loads really that popular as the vast variety of calibers available might suggest or was this a matter of manufacurers from a different time being able to produce a huge selection of products (large demand or not) as a sales pitch kind of thing? I always figured that maybe shot loads, blanks and other odd loadings made for easy finding despite their actual production numbers being low because they probably sat on shelves forever untill someone found them interesting enough to set aside. That being said, I’m sure many types are absolute rarities!

Also, any thoughts on just how effective something like a .40-82 WCF with No.7 shot would be out of a long rifle barrel?

Thanks,
Dave


#12

Actually Dave you have hit a nerve there. Most shot loads in ordinary C/F cartridges would be very inefficient and simply too expensive to justify regular use.

Its easy to see how something like a .45-70 might be loaded with shot but a .32-20?

TonyE and I exchanged views in a previous thread about shot versions of old British pistol cartridges being intended primarily for snakes.

I would be very interested to know what other people think because like you I can see very little purpose (and hence market) for them.


#13

During the 1890’s to the 1930’s, the period when these rifle shot cartridges were the most popular, I think there are a couple of reasons not mentioned so far in this thread. Many people only owned one gun for hunting deer and, of course, it was a rifle. So, the shot cartridges allowed this one gun to serve both as a large game gun and, if a rabbit was seen, a shot round could be used without ruining a lot of meat if a soft point had been used. This would be especially true in “deer or hunting camps”. It was common during those years for as many as 15-20 guys to go out together for up to a month and much of the food was provided “off the land” as it was available. Venison is great, but a nice rabbit stew occasionally would be welcomed. Yes, many people also, owned a shotgun, but most people, if the primary hunt was for large game, would not have carried both a rifle and a shotgun. Afterall, this was not an African Safari with Porters and Gun Carriers. As for cost of the shot rounds, they were, for the most part, the same as for soft points.


#14

My thanks to all who have posted in this thread. I wish that I would have joined IAA a long time ago. Such a wealth of experience and knowledge
that is available and shared by the members. I have learned so much in such a short period of time. I hope that as time goes on that I can contribute more and more to the IAA also.

What I thought would be just a few cartridges on my list has grown into what will become a long term collecting effort. I now begin to understand the
reason so many specialize in an area withing the ammunition collecting
community.

Ron


#15

rj

I too have an interest in shot loads. I listed all the loads in Jakob H. Brandt’s book “Manual of Pistol and Revolver Cartridges” in my list of cartridges to collect. He does a nice job of showing some of the variations of shot cartridges in indvidual calibers. please let me know if I can be of assistance.[/b]


#16

Ron (rjbman) - if you extended out into modern cartridges as well, you could easily spend many years of collecting building a collection of nothing but shot loads in Metallic cartridge calibers (no true, conventional shotgun shells). I have a lot of different shot shells in auto pistol calibers in my collection, even, believe it or not, in .25 Auto (6.35m/m Browning) caliber! Don’t know what those particular ones would have been good for, but they exist.

I think it would be one helluva interesting collection, and somewhat challanging in the the building of it! Fun!


#17

Ron M.

Thanks for posting the UMC info. I noticed that the 32-20, 38-40 and 44-40 are listed as such as well as 32 Winchester, 38 Winchester and 44 Winchester in both black and smokeless. Why the two different designations? The 32-20, 38-40 and 44-40 are listed as “Long Shell” which I assume is extended cases and the 32, 38 and 44 Winchesters are “wood end” (wood sabot’s?).

All 22 BB caps shots I’ve seen are extended cases, at least I’ve never seen a sabot. Now that I think about it I don’t recall ever seeing a 22 BB “U” shot of any type. The rest of the rimfires are wood sabots. There are also 25 Stevens long shot, 32 extra long and 56-46 Spencers UMC wood sabot shot.

Are the rest of the center fires on this list Wood sabots? How long did they use wood? I know they are a number of REM-UMC headstamped wood sabot (and some paper sabots) shot as well as Peters rimfires. If the Peters were made after merging with Remington that would mean they were made after 1934.

Paul


#18

To follow up on the ‘carry one weapon with two types of ammunition’ posts, I have two (empty) Remington UMC boxes with factory printing for 45-70-405, but the ends have ‘UMC No 5 Shot’ labels glued on and a red strip over the lid marked ‘SHOT CARTRIDGES’.

So even Remington was economizing.