Cartridges up for auction in the UK


#1

IMHO, this auction house’s grouping and price estimates are malpractice. Do restrictions and taxes drive down collector ammo prices that much in the UK?

https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=S0319+++7228+&refno=++135405&saletype=


#2

Most auctioneers are not familiar with ammunition other than by case type & thus the groupings. It’s partially a lack of understanding about what is collectable & what is for shooting.

As to the pricing having a low estimate does promote bidding.

gee some really great boxes in that sale, like this one.
Eclipse%20cane
Anyone know anything about it. Just a standard Canne gun but labeled as it is or was it special?


#3

Maybe prices on on a par with the dearth of certificate holders who can buy the ammo?
Horrible law:
"Requirement of firearm certificate…
(b) to have in his possession, or to purchase or acquire, any ammunition to which this section applies without holding a firearm certificate in force at the time, or otherwise than as authorised by such a certificate, or in quantities in excess of those so authorised.
(4)This section applies to any ammunition for a firearm, except the following articles, namely:—

(a)cartridges containing five or more shot, none of which exceeds ·36 inch in diameter;
(b)ammunition for an air gun, air rifle or air pistol; and
©blank cartridges not more than one inch in diameter measured immediately in front of the rim or cannelure of the base of the cartridge.

((This is the only law I am aware of where a 2" bore is O.K., but a .177 cal air rifle is not [sarcasm should be noted] ))

(3)This section applies to every firearm except—

[F1(a)a shot gun within the meaning of this Act, that is to say a smooth-bore gun (not being an air gun) which—

(i)has a barrel not less than 24 inches in length and does not have any barrel with a bore exceeding 2 inches in diameter;

(ii)either has no magazine or has a non-detachable magazine incapable of holding more than two cartridges; and

(iii)is not a revolver gun; and]

(b)an air weapon (that is to say, an air rifle, air gun or air pistol [F2which does not fall within section 5(1) and which is] not of a type declared by rules made by the Secretary of State under section 53 of this Act to be specially dangerous)."


#4

That is part of the problem. The UK has some of the most restrictive gun laws in Europe if not the world.

To collect live cartridges in the UK, you must have firearms certificate with specific permission to own ammunition for collecting purposes.


#5

I’d have to disagree…obtaining a collector’s ‘Section 5’ certificate to collect live ammunition of any type in the UK is really not difficult.


#6

The prices are what they are because of supply and demand. Not many people collect in the UK. So supply could be good but the demand is low. New or Section 5 listed ammo which has been inerted carries a premium, as anyone can collect it without having to lock their cartridges away in a safe. We can see it getting harder and harder to collect, I think it will not be long before it is inert ammo only that can be collected. As it is now there are new restrictions across Europe, Which when are guys have finished playing Brexit will turn their heads towards. When I inert any of my cartridges which I sell, I remove any A/P cores and even the tracer compound, as some countries in Europe can not have that in an inert cartridge. Blanks are drilled and the powder removed. My understanding is some European countries have to have the cases drilled, I sold to a buyer in France and they asked for every case to be drilled… Some of the auctions in Europe have to have the cases drilled. So the UK is not so bad, but I expect changes! … Paul.


#7

I must agree with Jim, it is not difficult to get a collectors FAC in the UK. To be honest it is not that difficult to get a FAC for firearms, you just have to justify why you want the firearm. I hope Paul is wrong about our future, but I can see it coming one day. I will also add that the auction house is trying to get as much for the items as it can. You can bid whatever you like.

Rich


#8

While it may not be too difficult to obtain, the problem is that the threat of confiscation is always there.

Unfortunately we do not have constitutional rights as they do in the USA.


#9

Falcon Please give us one good reason why the US constitutional rights are good for us.


#10

timeout
The current problem in the U.S. is that half the courts rule the constitution does not give us individual rights [left wing judges] and half the politicians want to re-interpret the constitution to their view of rights, which does not include ownership of firearms nor ammunition… with socialist views right out of Pre-WWII Nazi Germany- the only differnece is that those of the Jewish faith support the modern socialist/progressive. Hmmm… history repeats?
Sorry for the rant.


#11

Falcon,

For the authorities to seize property they need lawful grounds. Once the investigation is concluded and if the owner is legally entitled to possess the property, it should be returned. In the case of the Police, if they fail to return the property, it’s a simple process at the Magistrates’ court, to establish ownership and where appropriate its return.


#12

Badger… that not a rant! its only a comment… From my point of view you just have to work with the law of the country you live in. After all we all voted in the members of parliament / or what ever you have in the states in to represent us. I bet which ever country you look at WE will be in the minority. … paul


#13

By threat of confiscation I mean possible changes in the law as a whole rather than being applied to a specific person.

I have never been willing to spend much money on items for the collection, as the laws could be changed and confiscation happen as with the pistol ban. In that case compensation was paid, however I don’t think it would happen in case of cartridges, as they have no written market value as such.


#14

Sorry, but again I have to disagree. I think the threat of confiscation of a legitimate cartridge collection is negligible - a cartridge collection simply does not pose the threat that handguns do. I would also suggest that putting a value on a collection would be quite straight forward using old catalogues produced by the likes of Conjay’s, Ken Elk’s “Collector Cartridges”, Roger Mundy’s sales lists & others. It would be a time consuming process but it would be evidence of a cartridge collection’s value.


#15

The ones I think would be the first to go are the AP and Incendiary types. Also the heavier small arms calibres such as .55 Boys and 14.5 Russian.

I appreciate that AP and incendiary are already Section 5. All it would take is for a government bureacrat to decide that civilians do not need these types of “dangerous military ammunition” at all and that would be the end of it.


#16

Please explain that to cities in the U.S. where you can only have ammunition that matches your handgun permit, or- specifically- in N.J.* where hollow point handgun ammo is highly restricted.
It would not take much for some progressive liberal to get simple ownership of ammunition “under their skin”… after all, they cannot fathom WHY we own firearms!

*“Provided certain conditions are met, a sportsman may transport and use hollow point ammunition. There are no restrictions preventing a sportsman from keeping such ammunition at his home.
N.J.S.A 2C:39-3f(1) limits the possession of hollow nose ammunition. However, there is a general exception that allows for the purchase of this ammunition but restricts the possession of it to specified locations.”


#17

We had the opposite, as at one point here there was concern that we would be prevented from owning any ammunition that matched any weapon that was on a collectors license. This is because you are NOT allowed to fire a weapon that is on a collectors license. There has long been concern that certain individuals would collect only 9mm hand guns and coincidentally collect only 9mm ammunition, and then get up to mischief.

Here, we are not allowed to possess any special loads (i.e. tracer, incendiary, AP).