Caseless round


#1

When was designed the first caseless miltary round in modern calibers (30 06, 7.92, aso) ?


#2

I know that Germany produced some caseless 7.92mm in WW2. I don’t know if they were the first.


#3

The first caseless rounds in such caliber were produced in Germany, Czech and Poland. But first caseless rounds were designed in XIX century.


#4

Has USA made trials with a 7.62 bulllet in 1938 ?
.
Case length: 28 mm
Bullet length: 28 mm
Overall length of the ctge: 56 mm
The bullet is plated with cadnium and graphite.

Could you confirm?

Because if it is not American it is French.


#5

Hi Yuri !
Nice to see somebody is interested in this kind of rounds.
Here is a picture (bad quality because dating from 1939)


#6

Very interesting! Thank you!
The earliest known to me German patent which describes caseless round dated to 1935 year. It describes telescoped caseless round (#1 on drawing). In soviet book I


#7

i do not know where is this coming from or where it was tested.
Even if iti s french or american.
I found the picture in the french archives
JP


#8

jean-pierre

In your 1939 drawing, does it say what the internal components are? In particular, what part is the primer?

Ray


#9

no info .
on the drawing they say :

  • Photography of a document received with a note on the 3/3/39
  • 7.62 bullet carrying its totally burning propellant charge
  • Primer and bullet
  • Bullet coated with cadnium and graphite

This document is coming from SFM archives and the document itself is from MBA Research and development


#10

Isn’t the caliber for this time pretty much “unfrench”?


#11

About term : 7.62, yes and no

The designation 7.62 doesn’t look french,it is for that i thought it was US.
The national ctge in this time was 7.5 MAS.

But the measurement of a 7.5 French MAS bullet is 7.62.

And ,taking into account where is coming from the original drawing (a French research department), the term 7.62 can be more understood,because it is more correct for engineers to call a bullet by its real diameter (7.62) than by the army designation (7.5).


#12

I agree.
Have you ever seen a drawing of a 7.5mm cartridge where it was designated as a 7.62mm?


#13

All the drawings I have seen till now are manufacturing ones from SFM (or other compagnies) and they always use the French designation 7.5 (and not 7.62) for MAS.

But this drawing is coming from SFM experimental and projects section.

A friend of mine, Jacques Barlerin, who was the best expert for French experimental ammo and guns, would have the answer I am sure but he died one month ago.
Perhaps his documentaion would be available in the future and we will know who is MBA Research (I found no trace of them) and development and where is this round coming from.


#14

1e 7,92 x 43/RG CETME (Experiment Proff. Vorgrimmer)
2e 7,92 x 38/RG (Exp. Duitsland WWII)
3e 7,92 x 43/RG (Exp.


#15

I suppose it is safe at this point to assume the MBA Research that produced the drawing is the same MBA (MBA Associates - Robert Mainhardt and Art Biehl) that developed the Gyrojet?


#16

gyrojet -

Does the numbering in your post begin at the top or the bottom?

.


#17

I suppose it is safe at this point to assume the MBA Research that produced the drawing is the same MBA (MBA Associates - Robert Mainhardt and Art Biehl) that developed the Gyrojet?[/quote]
MBA Associates cannot be the same as MBA R&D which was French, existing in 1939 and located in Paris.


#18

Iconoclast
top to bottum

1e 7,92 x 43/RG CETME (Experiment Proff. Vorgrimmer )
2e 7,92 x 38/RG (Exp. Duitsland WWII)
3e 7,92 x 43/RG (Exp.


#19

I have confirmation.
This round is French and the drawing is coming from the company Brandt Armement.
JP


#20

Guy - I don’t think the Bob Mainhardt could have had anything to do with a drawing produced in 1939, in the French language, at S.F.M. MBA was about 30 miles from where I live, in San Ramon, California. I would think that Mainhardt would have been very young in 1939, and I am sure that the firm MBAssociates didn’t exist then.

I think I am reading the various dates on that drawing correctly. Correct me if I am wrong. It is a hard drawing to read on my screen.