CCI 9 x 19 shotshell


#1

hello

I’m surprised to see a cartridge in 9 mm para with shotshells, that the first time I saw this type of ammunition in this caliber.
I go to the CCI site but I don’t have more informations about this cartridge.
Can you help me, it is possible to have data about this cartridge and tell me more about this type of cartridge.
thanks.


#2

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#3

Often a shot load in a revolver or pistol caliber is for use aginst snakes or rodents here in the U.S. I think CCI brought these on the market to provide outdoorsmen (& women) with a measure of security when hunting, camping & etc. Idaho & lots of other areas of the U.S. have poisonious snakes. U.M.C.Co., and later Remington loaded wood sabotted shot loads in a large number of rifle and pistol calibers, plus Winchester, Western, and others also provided shot loadings, so not a new idea or market.
CCI provides this type of shot load in .38 Spl., 357 Mag., .44 Mag. & Spl, .45 Colt plus .22 rimfire calibers. The .45 ACP and .40 S&W loadings are extended neck type cases, usually found with a clear plastic topwad.
The early CCI 9mm’s have different shaped sabots (more pointed, like a standard, non-truncated bullet), and some of this style are known with darker plastic sabots.
CCI also made most, if not all, calibers of these shot loads as a factory dummy, with a holed primer or head in the case of the .22’s.
Hope this is of help.


#4

CCI has made these for years. They are made with the blue-plastic sabot in calibers .22LR, .22 Magnum, .38/357 (for use in either .38 Special or .357 Magnum Revolvers), 9mm Para and .44 Spl/.44 Mag. (for use in either caliber). The .38/357 and .44 Spl/.44 Mag designations represent two calibers, not four. There is no point to the more powerful loads in either case in a shotshell for the uses envisioned with this ammunition. Also made are .40 S&W and .45 Auto, but they do not use a plastic sabot, but rather an extended, necked case with the shot held by a transparent or milky-white over-shot wad held by a roll crimp.

The rounds are made for killing rodents, snakes, small birds, etc. Some use them for self-defense. Not a good idea in my humble opinion.

They usually come in hard-plastic packets of 10 rounds. All of the production center-fire caliber rounds are in aluminum cases. the .22 LR is normally in a nickeled brass case, with the .22 Magnum being in a plain brass case.

Hope this is the information you wanted. If not, be specific and I will try to help.


#5

thanks for response if someone have data about the version in 9 mm para, please.
I don’t know this ammo because in europe the use of small arms are different, in europe just for training or defense use not for currently life.
it is very strange some ammo.


#6

Here is a 9mmP contents minus powder:

Some more info: all the plastic components and the cartridge case are radiolucent (don’t show up on diagnostic X-rays). If you X-ray an intact cartridge all you see is the primer and the shot.


#7

[quote=“samourai”]thanks for response if someone have data about the version in 9 mm para, please.
I don’t know this ammo because in europe the use of small arms are different, in europe just for training or defense use not for currently life.
it is very strange some ammo.[/quote]

But they are sold in Germany, Belgium and Luxembourg for sure, and most shops have it, in their inventory…
In what country you are living??

GF
Forensic


#8

thanks for the picture
I’m living in france.


#9

Samourai - again, I am not sure what it is that you want to know. You should try to make your questions more specific. Aside from what was in my first answer, I cannot think of anything to tell you except the ballistics of the 9mm CCI shot round.

CCI Part # 3706
Shot Size: #12
Approximate weight of shot and sabot together: 64 grains
Muzzle Velocity for a 4" barrel (approximately 120m/m): 1450 fps (approx. 442 mps)

This is all the techical data supplied by CCI. For overall ctg. length and overall cartridge weight, measure it from one of your cartridges.

If there is something I have missed in my two answers, please ask the direct question of what it is you still need to know and I will try to help.

Pistol shot cartridges are not unique or strange at all. SFM in France made shot cartridges in both 6.35mm Browning and 7.65mm Browning. The United States made shot cartridges for survival purposes, in .45 Auto (11.25m/m Colt) during WWII, and they were made commercially, especially for the Thompson SMG before WWII. Revolver shot cartridges and shot cartridges for rifles (rifled-bore long arms) have been made off and on for the last century and more, almost as long as metallic ammunition has been made. Sometimes the rifle rounds are referred to as “forager loads”

Not all pistol projectiles with shot in them are made to act like a shotgun shell - that is, for the pellets to fly separately and spread to a specific shot pattern. Some bullets loaded with shot pellets are more like frangible cartridges, not made to come out of the bullet jacket until it has entered a target. These are generally made, like the Glaser safety slug, for self defense purposes, rather than small-game hunting, and are designed for low richchet, low penetration and rapid expansion. We do not refer to these types as “shot cartridges,” but rather as “bullets with pre-fragmented cores.”


#10

thanks for your explains


#11

If memory serves, the later CCI shotshell holds more shot than the earlier one – hence the change to the fuller profile shot capsule (above referred to as a sabot). I have fired these, and at “snake danger range” they do make a pretty full pattern. – Mark


#12

Actually, there have been a number of changes over the years. I will have my friend Joe post a picture as soon as he is able, of the four major variations of this cartridge in my collection. I also have lots of minor differences - color tones of the shot capsules (really a better term for these than “sabot” and I thank Mark51 for reminding us of that - he is absolutely correct), more or less transparency or translucency of the shot capsules, minor differences in headstamping, etc., which I have not bothered to show. They are unimportant. With the picture will be an explanation of what is in it.


#13

The four major variations of CCI 9 x 19m/m Shotshell from the John Moss collection.

Left to right they are:

Prototype with elongated and shouldered case, and transparent overshot wad held by heavy roll crimp. I am not aware of any commercial sales of this type, as it did not function well. Experimental, long shot capsule with base wad. I am not sure if they ended up loading these for commercial sale. I have pulled apart many early shot shells, and not found this capsule in one. I don’t even know for sure if there is a loaded one in my collection, as I have run out of dupes to pull apart.

Loaded shotshell with semi-pointed capsule (flat meplat). The capsule from that type of shell. Loaded shell with very blunt round-nose shot capsule, which has a very large diameter flat meplat. A sample of the type of capsule in that round. As far as I know, the more or less current version of the shot cartridge, with a similar shaped shot capsule to the last round described, but with a smaller diameter flat meplat. Shown is an empty capsule of that type, missing the base wad (or base plug). Aside from these, there are many small variations as described in John Moss’ previous posting about this photo. We have heard mention of other colors of “shot capsule” but these are almost certainly not shot capsules, but rather plastic projectiles from a very large and complex series of short range rounds made years ago by CCI, that were never marketed commercially.

John Moss


#14

Great info!

Does anybody know if the cases were ever made of anything other than aluminium? (any calibre)


#15

hello
many thanks for the picture it is very interesting
samourai


#16

To my knowledge, and I had close contact with CCI people at the time, these rounds were in Aluminum cases from the start. Nothing can ever be totally ruled out. Sometimes in trials at the factory they might load ten or twelve rounds of something - in short, it is not impossible that soem form of shot cartridge was tried in a brass case at one time or another by CCI. However, it was never marketed that way, and I don’t even know of any experimentals in brass cases.


#17

In my collection I have some with different colour shotshells, all SPEER head stamps.

also with different head stamps like.

SPEER 44 MAG (yellow shotshell, brass case)
FC 44 REM MAG (blue shotshell, brass case)
CCI 44 REM MAG (blue shotshell brass case)
CCI N R 44MAG (blue shotshell alu case)

Dutch


#18

Willem - you are absolutely right about the different colors in Revolver rounds. I didn’t even think of those because we were basically, at that point, discussing only the 9mm version of the CCI shot cartridges. I did mention the different color tones, but all of the 9mms are basically blue, ranging from a transparent aquamarine blue to an almost solid dark blue. Except, of course, the all aluminum early one with no shot capsule.

That’s a nice picture you posted, and a great addition to this thread. With everyone’s great efforts, the thread has become so informative as to the shot cartridges that I think I will create a “CCI Shot cartridge” file, rather than just refile all of this in my general CCI file.

Great job everyone and thanks again, Dutch (you’re always Willem to me), my dear friend, for reminding that there is something else in the world besides a 9mm, even if sometimes Lew and I don’t believe that. By the way, for our non-USA friends, just in case they don’t know, Speer and CCI are basically the same company. I am sure up at the factory they would disagree at a coporate regulatory level, but for all practical purposes as far as collectors and other ammo buffs are concerned, they are!

John M.


#19

I have the long shot case loaded with shot, but no live round. I also had a regular shot case loaded with a powdered-nonmagnetic-metal-almost a dust which was from a great source and was suppose to be a nonlethal short range police type load. Problem is it cracked and all the metal powder leaked out and the metal powder is distributed in the grooves of my white paper liner.