Chinese 12.7x99 / .50 BMG


#1

Do exist any Chinese made 12.7x99 / .50 BMG?

I got a hs reported as “11 90” and wonder now if that is China (attributed as such) or South Africa maybe.

Any info is welcome.


#2

Ron Fuch’s book attributes 11 (11 92) to unknown factory P.R.C.

This is the book entry for 11 90 Ball FMJ,
(also see South Africa) (filed under PRC)
Based on the HS, possible Chinese mfgr, however it is felt by some that this rnd was
possibly mfgd by: South Africa to look like a Chinese rnd. In Mar 2002, rec’d an opinion
from Will Reuter, in South Africa, he feels the “11 90”, rnds were not mfgd in South Africa,
because the brass quality is different, the finish of the base (beveling the rim), is different,
the necking die on the Chinese rnds is sharper (leaving a slight ridge), the paint work on the
Tracer is a more orange shade of red and more glossy, and a ring primer crimp is used,
something South Africa has not done since approx 1980

The PRC page also lists 12.7 P 92 and 12.7 ST 92

I found this spent case with an 11 96 headstamp at the Detling show in UK last month.


#3

tanegashimatomurata, great info! Thanks a lot!

Wish I had that one for reference!


#4

[quote=“EOD”]tanegashimatomurata, great info! Thanks a lot!

Wish I had that one for reference![/quote]
EOD
If you mean Ron’s 50 cal book, it is available for free download. Send Ron a message or email for the current link, the books (one for .50 cal and one for .223/5.56) are updated every six months. (memberlist.php?first_char=r)

I printed a hard copy of the .50 cal book at my work place, and it is 7cm thick !


#5

tanegashimatomurata, right you are, I should have checked Ron’s book first before posting here - but would have done anyways as I wanted to see what others have to say.

Ron is posting here every time he has an update on his two books and I am downloading them always with pleasure.
Thank you for reminding me!


#6

EOD, a group of Chinese linked ball, tracer, incendiary and incendiary-tracer rounds was made public at the Beijing Expo during 2009 (these are not the wrongly labeled 12.7x108 posted earlier on this forum). However, I have no idea about its headstamps or if these were actually produced.


#7

Fede, thanks, do any images exist of these?


#8

Poly Technologies Inc of Beijing (state owned) advertise 12.7x99, brass-cased and in the four usual flavours (Ball Tracer, AP and API). I have one of their catalogues dating from a couple of years ago which has a page on them.


#9

Tony, great info! Any chance we can see that sheet?
And any info on their hs / factory code maybe?


#10

No info on factory codes, and the pic of the cartridges isn’t clear enough to see headstamps. I’ll copy the sheet for you, if you can wait while I shovel some coal into my ancient scanner and get a head of steam built up…

Incidentally they also advertise 5.56x45, 7.62x51, and various western pistol ammo including .380 Auto, .38 Special, .32 revolver and .45 Auto (as well as the usual stuff of Russian origin).


#11

Thanks Tony, that will be great to see.
Any 9mm revolver of Chinese design, 12.7x108 with sniper, duplex or exposed core AP, 5.8x21 or 5.8x42 in there?


#12

There’s certainly a 9mm revolver, although it’s not identified by any name.

They have some data (but only small illustrations) on 12.7x108 APDS Type 54 and APDS-HEI (APHEI also), but no sniper or duplex, or exposed cores I can see.

No mention of 5.8x21 or 5.8x42 either.

I picked up a NORINCO catalogue at the same time (Eurosatory 2010) which focuses more on larger calibres but also lists a 12.7mm Browning and 5.56x45 (could be from the same factory, of course!).

Edit to add: the NORINCO book includes a 3-barrel 12.7x108 MG, which looks interesting.


#13

The 12.7x108 APDS-HEI & APHEI do sound very interesting. Any chance to see these too?

I have the 2012 Eurosatory NORINCO catalog but that one starts right with large calibers and no medium calibers or SAA ammo is shown. Just some table in the end of the catalog listing these and the .50 BMG is not even given with a projectile type (strangely) while the 108mm case is described with several “standard” prjectiles.


#14

Quick and dirty scans of the 12.7x99 and 12.7x108 pages in the Poly Technologies catalogue are here: quarry.nildram.co.uk/img613.jpg

and here: quarry.nildram.co.uk/img614.jpg


#15

Thanks Tony!

I just woder now what would be their APDS-HEI like.
Also the AP-HEI sounds like a clone of the Raufoss NM140.

Wish we knew more.


#16

12,7x99 “Ball”



#17

JMG, thanks a lot!!!

One more on my want list now…


#18

Alex, here it is:


#19

…the list is gettin longer…


#20

One wonders what a “Browning Machine” is - a toaster? ;-)