Chinese 30-06


#1

Below are 30-06 specimens with brass cases and M-2 projectiles from the tin shown in the picture. They were package in used U.S. M1 Garand clips, however the tin was opened when I received it, so I wouldn’t think the cartridges were loaded in the used clips at the factory. According to Chris Punnett, the author of the famous “30-06” book, The factory is 60A and was at Kao Hsiung on Taiwan and used equipment provided by DIL (part of C-I-L) of Canada in the late 1940s. The year 58 is Chinese year 58 or about 1969-70.
Many Thanks to Chris Punnett for his help on this item.

For more information please see below link:
ammo-one.com/30-06-61-Chinese.html
Thank you, Dave Call


#2

Well, somehow I lost my first reply. Regarding the clips on this ammo, it is quite possible, of course, that they were not original to an opened can. However, one should look at whether or not they fit the can well on clips. If packed originally in boxes, the same number of rounds might not fit well on clips. Also, it would be great to have the entire label translated. The bottom line on the right starts with the number “8”, the number of rounds in a Garand clip, and could refer to packing on chargers. I don’t read Chinese so that is nothing more than a wild guess on my part. I know only a very, very few characters found on guns.

The fact that the clips are mixed and used is not of itself an indication they aren’t original to the can, I would think. Taiwan has not fought any all-out war in their existence (I don’t know if they had any troops in Korea or VN or not), and chargers are routinely recycled in many countries, including the U.S. I remember M1 ammo that came with a mixture of clips, some showing use, although always in very good condition, never rusty or anything like that. Some of the Iraqi .303 that came in in bandoleers, the ammo all one headstamp and date, had a wonderful selection of chargers. I found one of the Mark I clips I had in a bandoleer of that stuff.

Well, my comments are for future study of that can. As I said, I don’t read chinese and have not seen this particular can before, so just conjecture. Thanks for posting those beautiful pictures of it Dave. Great stuff!


#3

The number 264 I take to be the quantity in the can, 33 eight round clips to be exact.

Very interesting item. I’ve never seen one of these Chinese cans before!

AKMS


#4

[quote=“JohnMoss”]Well, somehow I lost my first reply. Regarding the clips on this ammo, it is quite possible, of course, that they were not original to an opened can. However, one should look at whether or not they fit the can well on clips. If packed originally in boxes, the same number of rounds might not fit well on clips. Also, it would be great to have the entire label translated. The bottom line on the right starts with the number “8”, the number of rounds in a Garand clip, and could refer to packing on chargers. I don’t read Chinese so that is nothing more than a wild guess on my part. I know only a very, very few characters found on guns.

The fact that the clips are mixed and used is not of itself an indication they aren’t original to the can, I would think. Taiwan has not fought any all-out war in their existence (I don’t know if they had any troops in Korea or VN or not), and chargers are routinely recycled in many countries, including the U.S. I remember M1 ammo that came with a mixture of clips, some showing use, although always in very good condition, never rusty or anything like that. Some of the Iraqi .303 that came in in bandoleers, the ammo all one headstamp and date, had a wonderful selection of chargers. I found one of the Mark I clips I had in a bandoleer of that stuff.

Well, my comments are for future study of that can. As I said, I don’t read chinese and have not seen this particular can before, so just conjecture. Thanks for posting those beautiful pictures of it Dave. Great stuff![/quote]

John ,
Thank you for the kind comments, we could use a member that reads Chinese or Mandarin. I still have no idea how Chris Punnett figured out 58 in Chinese equals 1968 or 1969. I looked all over the internet for information on Chinese dates vs. western dates, but not much luck. I bought the tin as I had not seen one before and found it very interesting, information on the cartridge is in Chris Punnett 30-06 book.
Best,
Dave Call, A Call to Arms, LLC, www.ammo-one.com


#5

Dave - well, this will get me in trouble with Chris P., but I have to say that it is no surprise to me when Chris figures out anything. He has been an executive with a major international company and is an incredible researcher when he is interested in something. He also has, in my opinion based on working with him as an officer of IAA for ten years, almost an inherent ability to know what questions to ask and where one might find the answers.

The reason for the date is that Taiwan still uses the old Chinese Republic cali
ender. We already discussed this on the thread about Chinese .45 ammunition, so I’ll make this short. It is based on the date 1911, and to find the Julain calender year for a Tainwanese headstamp date, simply add the date on the headstamp to 1911. A date of 58, therefore, becomes 1969 on our calender. If I am sounding like a scholar, don’t believe it. I only learned that on this Forum, and only days or weeks ago. I didn’t even know there was a Chinese Republic calender before that. The older I get, the more I realize I know very little about anything, including ammunition. That is why something like this Forum is great, and why I appreciate so much that we are allowed to stray a little. Look what we have learned in other areas, even botany on one of APSFD’s postings. I thinkj I have learned more here than I did in college, and certianly more in my own field of interest than I have from any other signle source.

The fact is, we have some REAL scholars on this Forum to help us learn more and more about the hobby we love, and some other things as a bonus!


#6

A Call to Arms

I find your pictures of the Taiwanese .30 cal. can with the yellow markings to be very interesting. I have an almost identical can that has no markings at all except for the embossed symbol of the 60A Plant on the lid. The can contains 33 new dark gray phosphate coated M1 Garand clips of 8-rounds (as AKMS correctly pointed out) marked


#7

As a clip collector ‘58’ on a Garand en-bloc has always been associated with Nationalist China although for some reason (ignorance probably) I always thought the numbers would be a factory code rather than a date.

It was the purchase of 1000 rounds of Greek HXP 0,303" that got me into collecting clips in the first place. I don’t know where the chargers came from but there was a goodly variety of types and makers. They were all in excellent condition and when I also rooted through other shooters supplies and bought more of my own whilst it lasted I got a flying start for my collection.

Peter