Chinese 5,8 x 21


#1

Here is the new 5,8mm pistol and submachinegun ammo used by the chinese special forces and police. They used a rubber tip. An improvement for law enforcement troops.

The army used the ammo in pistols and submachineguns. The pistol ammunition is called DAP 92.

Until now I only couldt locate the normal ball ammunition. There is a special subsonic round and a propelling cartridge. The propelling round has a longer caseneck and is folded and is used in the submachinegun to fire grenades.

Anybody has ever seen a dummy or blank?

Here is a 50 rd. box of ‘ball ammunition’ or ‘regular ammo’ in chinese.

To give an idea of the size of the round here in comparison with a 7,62 Type 64 round . It is a rimles version of the .320 ACP .

Here is an pic of the prototype and a cutaway of the round

I will see what I can find out and hope more rounds show up soon. It is may be too new and only in military use.

.


#2

Nice- I’ll take a box of each please.


#3

The picture at the top, in the plastic container, appear to have cartridges with a longer neck and body than that of the 5.8 Pistol Round. Are you sure they are pistol cartridges, and not rifle rounds?


#4

I’ve seen that pic before John, in THIS forum. It’s an improved load for the 5.8x21, but no-one yet seems to know in what way it’s been improved.


#5

Tony - but surely its not 5.8 x 21mm; that is, the case is not 21mm in length any more, is it? Proportionately, in the picture, the case looks to be at least 35mm long!?


#6

It’s difficult to tell from photos like that, but I doubt that it can be anything like that long, John, as the caption to the pic refers to it as being a “modified pistol round”.


#7

Tony - I was just trying to establish a ratio. On my screen, the bullet measures 4mm across at the case mouth, about 4/6 of what should be its diameter, and the case measures about 22mm long. I know measuring something off of a computer screen isn’t really rocket science, but it should give some idea of the proportions of the cartridge. Proportionate to the bullet diameter, the case length should be somewhere around 30 to 33mm, if I am doing the math right. The picture does not appear to be distorted, using other visible objects in the picture for comparison. I was overboard on the idea that the case would be at least 35mm in length. Screwed up the math.


#8

I’ve asked on the CDF thread…


#9

Hello John,

wow very good eyes but it is a delusion. If you zoom the pic bigger you see that it is the 21mm case. They used a semi jacket with a rubber tip and it looks like an longer case out of the semi jacket Tony is right no closer information about the improvement and bullet construction is currently known.
On my screen the bullet dia. is 17mm. 5,8mm divided through 17mm is 0,341. The case length on my screen is 60mm multiplicated with the factor 0,341 is 20,47mm, very close to 21mm case length.

.


#10

O.K. Thanks for the explanation. With the bigger picture, I can see that what I thought was a much longer neck on the case is actually the lower part of the projectile, as you pointed out. From the original text, it seemed that the whole projectile was plastic. I am very happy to get this news, and correction of my faulty assumption, because not only does it set the record straight, but it tells me there is one less cartridge I must look for! With all the new stuff coming out, that is a blessing! Thanks guys for bearing with me on this subject. Sometimes pictures ARE misidentified, and I guess I have become overly sensitive to that, and am looking for things that don’t exist.


#11

John–Thanks for TRYING to keep us honest, even if it back-fired this time. Critical thinking like yours can correct many mistakes that might otherwise end up as “Truths” if not corrected.


#12

Photo analysis is a real art.


#13

Is this cartridge case based on an existing case, or is it something new altogether.


#14

The 5.8x21 round wasn’t based directly on anything else, I think. The rim diameter is 8mm, which is the same as the 4.6x30 HK, but that must be coincidental.


#15

The rim diameter is 7.90-7.95mm.


#16

Thanks. I had a feeling that the “8mm” was a “round about, sort of” figure :)


#17

Perhaps if the Chinese government knew that there were a bunch of us eagerly anticipating adding their new cartridges to our collections, they’d be willing to make a few boxes of dummies available to the IAA and ECRA as a goodwill gesture. I suppose one can always dream.


#18

Oh they make small lovely presentation gift boxes with gold plated chinese manufactured cartridges.


#19

Correct, I got mine already:


#20

Does anybody know what is the headstamp? What numerical code?

Philippe