Clandestine Supply Catalog - PDF


#1

Here is the PDF I wanted to post. It is the ammunition section from what is known as a “CIA Catalog”, weapons and accessories that could be requisitioned for use by Agency personnel to supply and outfit paramilitary units, but not readily identified as American equipment.

gigconceptsinc.com/CIA-catalog.html

I found the following items particularly interesting:

H00-0765 and 3670: Are these the A/N B/N C/N headstamps?
H00-4405: Explosive .45ACP???
H00-2304: My favorite bit of info, US-made 7.62 Tokarev!
H00-3989, 4519 to 4585, 2618 to 1739: Are these the Canadian “MM” rounds that might be 1940s or 1950s production? What are Type X and XX?
H00-1475 to 2617: Same “MM” production as above?


#2

Jon and Lew
Thanks for getting a link up for this document. It has listed :

H04-0958 German, Patr. S.S. (heavy, green primer, brass
case); category A; rifle grade; designed for rifles; 15 per carton

This is the first official (if it is official) mention of this ammunition I have seen. Kent in his book about 7.9mm has a very short note on page 139 that simply says “Reportedly issued US Special Forces c. 1972 for MG 42”


#3

I haven’t looked at the PDF yet but will as soon as I have the time. I have a representative sample of some of the cartridges and would be interested in knowing who made them and when. Does it cover such things? There’s a general concensus on the who and where of the AN, BN, and CN ammo, but it would be great to be able to verify.

Thanks to Jon and Lew for making this info available.

Ray


#4

The catalog has been confirmed to me by at least 3 very knowledgeable sources. Mine is only one of at least 3 different editions I’ve heard of, new editions over time apparently. A few years back I had a few copies made to sell at my table. Anyone interested in a full copy should PM me for details. Lots of interesting weapons info.


#5

H00-4405: Explosive .45ACP MBA and was unheadstamped. The bullet had a recessed point with four tabs folded down to hold the red insert in the point in place. It was packed in a small round gray metal can that came apart in the middle (held in place by tape). My memory is that there were three rounds in the top and three rounds in the bottom of the can (ie 6 rounds, not the 5 in the item description, but maybe I’m wrong. I only saw a can once and that was many years ago. There is an earlier version that lacked the four metal tabs that held in the red insert-I think this was only a prototype.

I had a chance to speak to an MBA guy who worked this project. We met because he was passing me two of the cartridge for another collector-I was just picking them up because the MBA guy was visiting a place where I happened to be. We spoke for about 30 minutes (about 1975-1976) and my recollection is that the cartridges were somehow associated with the Navy-perhaps originally a Navy contract out of Crane. He also said they had tried it in 9mmP (which was my real question) and had made some ammo for test, but it wasn’t nearly as effective as as the 45 and was never produced. He also said that no examples existed anymore—but I still keep looking.

Finally there was another 0.006 second delay HE in long rifle. I got this round from the source that had the can I had seen in the early 70s (72 or 73). It was for a selective fire .22LR machine pistol. Tiny weapon-all I saw was a photo. I contacted the source a few years ago and the can of 45s and the .22s are long gone, probably destroyed when the role of the organization changed. Sad!!! The .22 went into a very advanced collection soon after I got it.

I once had one of the 45 rounds but I think it is long gone in a trade. I have seen the 45s in a number of advanced collections over the years.

Cheers,

Lew

PS: Ref “H00-2304: My favorite bit of info, US-made 7.62 Tokarev!” There is an article on this cartridge in Journal 414, page 30. Copies are available at $5 each electronically from the IAA at Purchases@cartridgecollectors.org


#6

Phil, Lew, great info!!! Exactly what I was hoping would come out of the posting.


#7

Ahhhh, Lew! Your memory is fading. The .45 cans held five rounds. I have the can. It is made of steel, painted gray on the outside. The top has, in red print within a red circle, “Cal. 45 H.E. ROUND WITH .006 SEC.DELAY 5 EA.”

I didn’t realize that MBA had anything to do with this round. Interesting. I had heard it was purely a Winchester product. The primed case certainly is Winchester, with the domed-nickel primer. Wish I had the round - it was in the box when I acquired it, but I had to leave the cartridge behind due to California law. I don’t recall if the round from my box had the “tabs” or not. I do remember that the bullet appeared to be like a hollow point with a bright red disc at the nose. Stupidly, I took no specs from the round (overall cartridge weight) which might have allowed me to know at least the approximate bullet weight.

I didn’t see my can before it was opened, but I suspect it was not taped together at the center, since there is a clear impression of a little “can opener key” that was attached to the side of it. The key is gone, but there is no mistaking what was there. From the sharp edges of the can, both top and bottom, and the fact that both top and bottom have the same diameter (meaning one does not fit into the other), I have to assume it was of the type that had a pre-weakened metal strip at the center that you peeled off with the key to open the can. For keeping this ammo totally dry and safe in combat conditions, that would also make more sense than tape. It may be that the key was taped to the can, however, although my can has zero evidence of having had tape on it anywhere. That, of course, doesn’t mean a thing - simply an observation.

John Moss


#8

John, I was coming back to this thread because I dug out a note and the headstamp is WRA 53 on both the uncrimped and the crimped bullet rounds.
On the can, I only saw one once and thought it was six, but clearly wrong! Wonder how I remembered it incorrectly. That has never happened before!!! It was only 35 years ago!!!

Tough to get old.

Lew


#9

Am surprised the the rounds were headstamped. I have not, until now, ever heard of headstamped rounds in relation to these little cans. All rounds I have seen (all of 3) have been unheadstamped and clearly at the least Winchester-manufactured cases and primers. Are you positive that the rounds you saw had anything to do with these little 5-shot gray cans?

Only 35 years ago and you’ve forgotten the …? Hmmmm! What was it we were just talking about. Soup Cans? Cartridge cases made from cans? I forget. Remind me.

John Moss