"Concepts in Ammunition" - less lethal pistol rds


#1

I can’t remember if this was discussed here before, but below are some photos of the less-lethal loads from Concepts in Ammunition out of Garden City, Michigan.
http://www.conceptsinammunition.com/

They load hard rubber projectiles, some with a pepper-spray component, in several calibers. The auto calibers do not cycle auto-pistols, and the action must be worked manually for each rd. I don’t know if there is any powder charge, or what the grain weight of projectiles is (don’t dare to pull the pepper load), but the “Sport” load weighs in with a total weight of 75.2gr, and the "Home Defense load is 76gr. The “pepper” load is 75gr and has a black primer. I only have some of each type of 9mm for now (writing on cases is from me so I don’t confuse them):



They show an image on the home page of some .40S&W loads with red and black projectiles, but the .40 page does not show these, and all the projectiles on all calibers seem to be white/cream color


#2

And you should stake your life on these? I wonder how the “pepper” load is supposed to work better than a can of pepper spray. It might be better to throw rocks.

Sorry, I am not a believer in the concept of using “distractionary rounds giving life saving time to seek safety while repelling threats.” Especially so if the adversary is armed. I can see the only market being cartridge collectors.


#3

Oh it absolutely appears to be a solution seeking a problem. Based on appearance and description of ability, there are better alternatives in both sprays, zappers, and frangible / less-lethal munitions.

From a collectors’ standpoint as far as specialty munitions go however, I am thrilled.


#4

While frangible rounds are intended mainly for training use, believe me, they can be plenty lethal. No way I would call most of them less-than-lethal. I have done ballistic gelatin testing, and from the results, anyone hit in the right place by a frangible projectile will not likely live to tell the tale. Some of the first frangible rounds fielded were intended for use against human targets in hazardous surroundings (shipboard, nuclear power plants, etc.). I could tell some stories, but I won’t.


#5

I agree on the lethality of frangibles. I meant in terms of surrounding safety is concerned, as is a selling point with the plastic / rubber type bullets. The frangibles often tout themselves as being good for “apartment dwellers” as the gun mags used to describe. Never mind that the odds of an errant bullet of any sort penetrating an unintended wall and actually harming anyone is relatively astronomical.


#6

Just looking around on Youtube quickly, and there’s no shortage of pistol-cal rubber bullet videos. This singaporean 20ga revolver from Lamperd seems… interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS5mCtJz75g

S&W 500 rubber loads from the same company as above (http://www.lamperdlesslethal.com)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG9W6_WwmOg

The ALS rubber 9mm load (2 rubber balls):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh9U0Efc_l0&feature=fvwrel

Some .45 cal rubber loads from Fort (Ukraine):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om8tD40GU2k&feature=related


#7

DK, I got a set of these about 18 months ago. They are in R-P cases, but otherwise look like yours, except the pepper load had a red painted primer! Yours looks like the primer on the pepper load is darkened with a magic marker.

Wish he had sold them with the colored bullets illustrated. I asked him if I could buy anything he had with color bullets, but he said all there were are photos left-have no idea if that is the truth or not!

I don’t have any of these loads in a home defense pistol!

Cheers,
Lew


#8

Are these still being made? I have not seen them before. Do you have a contact point for this company?


#9

It is the link in the first post: http://www.conceptsinammunition.com


#10

DK,

If you’ll send me a couple of the ‘pepper infused gourmet rounds’ I’ll be glad to pull the projos and get some pics online.

Even if it turned out to be CS/CN/etc instead of OC, I get my dose of that crud pretty regularly and have a place to do the pulls that is already ‘contaminated’.

Even in 12ga, OC projectile or muzzle-blast payloads are usually inadequate, so I’d be curious to see/weigh the actual amount of irritant.