Couple of new finds


#1

GeCo 7,65 Parabellum box. Looks so good I was tempted to think it was a reproduction.

And one we don’t find over here that often. Mexican CI 9mm box. Liked the Luger depicted on the top.


#2

Lovely!!! I particularly like the CI box. Not found over in the US either. At least not by me!


#3

Vlim - the C.I. box from Cascade International shows up here once in a while. I have that box in my own collection, although only with a fired case in it. I have a loaded round in my singles collection though.

The 7.65 Para box is a very nice find. I have not seen the 50-round box before! I have a similar box style in both Geco and RWS (red box) but in 25-round capacities only! Great find.


#4

Thanks,

The GeCo box has what seems to be a separate label with the 7,65 para information, which is glued over the top of the box, leaving the ‘50 patronen’ and ‘Gustav Genschow’ text, which is printed on the box itself, visible.

It wouldn’t surprise me if a 9mm label was underneath it and that GeCo simlpy reused boxes by sticking another label on top of it.

On the inside of one of the lids a rubber stamped ‘SS’ is visible. This is probably some sort of lot/ID-code? (no I don’t think the box was sold to a certain German organization with that name ;)


#5

With that marking, someone would probably try to sell that GeCo box on one of the auction sites with a ridiculous price, claiming it was found with a pistol belonging to Himmler or something similar.


#6

Now there’s an idea :)

I’m convinced it’s nothing more than an internal date or lot code.


#7

I’m not saying the box has anything to do with the Schutzstaffel, but some people would see that “SS” marking in the box and see it as a way to make some quick money.

Just as in Germany after the war, apparently any Jeweller would nickel plate an American Soldier’s war trophy Luger pistol for a packet of Cigarettes or similar. Many of these pistols turn up today on auction sites with stories such as “Himmler’s Personal Sidearm”, “Nickel Plated Kriegsmarine Luger”, “Award presented by Hitler to SS General” etc.


#8

hahaha… No doubt! …Are you sure that the box wasn’t found in the glovebox of Himmlers staffcar??? Might be worth a fortune!
Now I have to go auction off some of my WWII 7,9mm S.s. patrone as ‘Concentration Camp Guard Ammunition!’ …just kidding of course.


#9

It would be interesting to see other rubber stamp marks on the inside of similar GeCo boxes.


#10

I have box with blue stamp TE


#11

Nice, thanks for the image.
Being rather close together, S & T, the lot code idea isn’t that far off I guess.

More examples anyone?

Coming back to the ‘7,65’ part of the label being carefully glued over the box, it’s also clearly visible that the side label (which also mentions the calibre’) on one side has also had a 7,65 label glued over it. The modification looks period in all respects.


#12

O.K. Here are some of the letters (and numbers) on my Geco and RWS boxes of the same pattern as the 7.65 Para 50-round box shown in the opening of this thread. All of these boxes are of that basic pattern. They are all, with the exception of the 9mm Para boxes, 25-round boxes. The 9mm Para re for fifty rounds.

Geco:

6.35m/m - MK5 followed by a little mark I can’t decipher. On back of box
7.65m/m Browning - SL
7.65m/m Para - OuN (or it could be QuN - the bottom of the first letter is missing)
9m/m Kurz - G6c
9m/m Parabellum - QuE

RWS

7.65m/m Browning (Stahlh


#13


#14

Gyro:

Was that the box you had on display at the NVBMB-meeting?

I’d be happy to take that unattractive box off your hands during one of the next meetings :)

A general remark. I’m wondering about the ‘made in Germany’ text. We know that certain countries, like the USA, legally bound importers to mark the country of origin on their imported products.

The text ‘Germany’ can be observed on many commercially imported lugers of the 1920s and 30s, for example. Then there is the ‘made in Western Germany’ variation which came to exist after the separation of East and West Germany was a fact.

I know that some collectors argue that the ‘made in Germany’ mark means that it was made after 1945 and I tend to disagree, simply because the obligation to mark products was a legal matter, introduced quite early in the USA at least. There is no doubt, of course that ‘Made in West Germany’ is post-war :)

What are the current thoughts about the ‘Germany’ and ‘Made in Germany’ markings, especially on small arms ammunition boxes?

John: Thanks for the list, very interesting.
After some reshuffling:
(code/producer/type)
RE, RWS 7,65 para

SL, Geco 7,65 browning
SS, RWS 9m/m Kurz
SS, Geco 7,65 para

TE, Geco 7,65 para

XL, RWS 7,65 browning (steel cased)

G6c, 9mm short
MK5?, Geco 6,35mm
QuE, Geco 9mm para
QuE, RWS 9mm para
OuN(or QuN), Geco 7,65 Para

5Uc, Geco 9mm para (postwar)
L6c, Geco 9mm Para (postwar, military numbers)


#15

Vlim,

The “Germany” or “Made in Germany” stamp on cartridge boxes, Luger pistols, etc., from Germany goes back long before WWII. My “American Eagle” commercial Luger was stamped “Germany” and it was a Model 1906. One way to tell the U.S. Army Trials Model 1900 American Eagle Luger was that there was no country of origin stamped on it. It was not required because they were sold to the U.S. Government. All of the Model 1920 and Model 1923 Commercial Lugers sold in American were stamped “Germany.” I had what collectors call a Model 1923 that was not stamped Germany, meaning it was not originally sold here, and they were quite scarce in this country.

I think that since The United States was a big market for commercial arms and ammunition, that many items were simply stamped with the country of origin in English as a matter of course, even if they did not end up in and English-speaking country or one that required such a marking.


#16

Gyrojet,

Your box have a stock number


#17

Didn’t think about that. The ‘Versorgungsnummer’ is basically the NSN (Nato Stock Number, or National Stock Number). So at least there’s not much doubt that that box is post-war :) It is also an indication that it was meant for use within the military service of that period. Probably the early Bundeswehr, established officially in 1950.

1305-12-120-0735

13 Ammunition and explosives
05 till 30mm
12 Country code of Germany
120 -0735, the Part ID itself (NIIN, if I’m correct).