Cruiser Montevideo (Dogali) 1” flare cartridge

Hi
I have these two 1” flares cartridge.

Could someone help me to properly ID these units? Name of the cartridge? For what kind of gun was used?

Thanks in advance
Daniel

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These are Italian flares- looks like white and yellow stars.
Very nice condition and thanks for showing them. Two different primers.

The one on the right is cool, and the one the left is very cool!
It reads [approximately]
Pyrotechnics of the Certosa - Venice
Loaded in December 1900
With stars from October 1900

I cannot see the letters on the right cartridge well enough to guarantee a translation:
R. a Pyrotechnics of the Certosa - Venice
Uploaded in September with star of 1895
(T) Primed [or Triggered?] at [with?] new in August 1901

So, a new primer system in August 1901?

It could have been for this Italian Flare Gun, Model 1900.
Italian%20WWII%20Model%201900%20Flare%20Gun-%20SAMT%20Torino

great flares, thanks

For us history buffs, please explain the Title of this Thread? What is the significance of “Cruiser Montevideo (Dogali)” in the title in relation to these flares?

John Moss

Depending on the timeline,
Both names could apply tothe same or successive ships of the RM.
Dogali was a town in Eritrea-Abbyssinia border area where an Italian unit was massacred in 1887(?) as Italy was securing its Eritrea Colony.
Montevideo was the Capital of Uruguay, which had declared its independance from Brazil, with the help of many Italian immigrants in the 1850s ( including Garibaldi). Uruguay had a very large number of Italians by the 1900s.
Venice and its connected ports and dockyards, was the location of the original Arsenale, ( from which the word derives)
where Naval vessels were built and provisioned, from the middle ages.
As to the connection between said ships and the cartridges, probably an issue marking???
I don’t have much knowledge on RM matters outside of Carcanos, Mauser Marina M1899, and Naval Maxims in 10.4x47R Calibre. Oh, and Colt M1914 Potato diggers used by Naval Coastal Artillery crews on
Railway guns 1915-18. For AA protection.
Doc AV

The cases were, or were based on, 1" Nordenfelt - http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/97990-Flare-Cartridge

The reason for me asking about “Montevideo” and “Dogali” was that I could see no markings on the cartridges referring to either the capitol of Uruguay or the border town of Dogali, Eritrea/Abbyssinia. It was deemed important enough to include in the title of the thread, but with zero mention of it in the opening thread of the topic. Since the word “Cruiser” was there also, I assumed it was a ship’s name, although the two different locations of the communities named confused me a bit - very diverse to be the name of one single ship. Being a history buff, the potential relationship of the two cartridges to one or more ships’ names was, and is, of interest to me.

Doc Av’s information was helpful, but I was looking for perhaps a more definitive answer, perhaps from “scrap” since he wrote the title. I am still interested. It is always nice when you can tie the identity of a cartridge to a specific point of use.

John Moss

John, I did some further research on an Italian web site.
The Dogali ( light torpedo cruiser)
was laid down in Armstrong’s
Elswick yard, Newcastle on Tyne, UK in 1885, originally as the Salamis for Greece, but sold to Italy as the Dogali in 1887.
It served in the Italian Navy till about 1906, was paid off and was sold to Uruguay about 1910, who renamed it the Montevideo.It was finally scrapped in its home port in 1930s.
It was initially armed with a selection of artillery, torpedoes, and Gatlings…calibre of these last unknown…possibly 10.4 Vetterli, but could be British Gatling calibres ( .45 Gardner-Garling??).Later, 1890s, the RM
did have Maxims in 10.4mm…seen a portion of Maxim belt with 10.4 ammo on Gunboards.( found in Montevideo by GB subscriber)

The RM did have 1" Nordenfeldt guns, and used the 1" Subcalibre device in their Rifled Breechloaders…this 2as because from the Crimean war onwards, the RM ( as it became in 1861/1870), sourced a lot of Naval vessels and Ordnance from Great Britain. The connection betwee. VICKERS, and various Italian shipyards, and even Terni ( Vickers-Terni Steel) made the British ordnance industry the Go-to
Supplier to Italy’s Navy.
Doc AV.

Thanks John and Dac and sorry that the post name was not clear

These flares belongs (most probably) to the Italian cruiser named Dogali and when Uruguay purchase it in 1908 the name was change to 25 de Agosto and later Montevideo.

This is a MG belt that was also part of this cruiser, it is a 10,4 Vetterli:
IMG_7134

saludos
Daniel

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Muchas Gracias, senor Daniel.
It was your photos that I remembered from sometime ago.
Saludos,
Doc AV

Thank you to both of you. It could not now be clearer. Interesting history for one “ship of the line” to have had so many names. I love this stuff. Sorry if I seemed pushy about getting the information - I knew you guys would come thru and just want to express as clearly as I could what information was of interest to me, and I hope, to others. One of the great thinks about collecting almost anything, is the ability to link it to other historical items and events. I think the study of guns and ammunition excels in being able to often do that.

Thanks again, amigos.

John

Amigo Juan, de nada
El DocAV.