Czech 7.62 x 25mm short dummy


#1

I acquired a Czech 7.62 x 25mm Dummy. It is headstamped “aym 53 _”. It has a brass case and a strongly magnetic GMCS bullet. The primer cap is struck and there are five flutes in the case. The interesting part about it is that the case is 2mm shorter than it should be, making it a 7.62 x 23mm. The bullet also sticks out further than a live round and is held in place by a heavy neck crimp. Why is this? Thanks in advance for any info.


#2

Well-known round, comes in a few different variations.
I believe the two major theories are:

  1. They were made with short shoulders so they wouldn’t jam in the tight chamber shoulder of a service weapon.
  2. They were for use in a training weapon that had a short chamber that would not accept live ammunition.

#3

Regarding the heavy neck crimp, it is not unusual for dummy cartridges to use verious means to prevent bullet setback. Unlike live rounds, which are not meant to be feed constantly in and out of chambers of auto and semi-auto weapons (why most experience auto pistol gun carriers who must, for whatever reason, rotate the ammunition in their magazines and also use it first for practice, replacing it with new cartridges), dummies are used over and over again. Eventually, without special canneluring or crimping, or devices like a bullet jacket that is full length and bottoms on the inside head of the cartridge, the bullets will start to push into the case.

There are many variations of these dummies - some have short cases, while others have a shoulder lower than that on a standard 7.62 x 25 mm round. Some are the same shape and general dimensions as the case on live rounds. They are found in brass and lacquered steel, and with various headstamps. A few have been found with a nickeled or chromed case, and the bullet jacket polished to the color of true Gold. The purpose for those is unknown to me.

John Moss


#4

Thanks for the write-up John, but I badly phrased that, I meant “why is this” for the case length. I have noticed the heavy crimps on alot of dummies for the reasons you stated.


#5

We are discussing this every two years it seems.


#6

True, Alex, but this might be the first time in this incarnation of the Forum.


#7

This is correct.


#8

Hello
This is a discussion about these rounds (see photos).


#9

Yes, excellent. The wood rod is interesting. You are missing one variation, a 25mm case with the short shoulder.


#10

Are the wooden rods attached to the base of the bullets in any way?


#11

I saw 7.92x33 blanks “squeezed” out of .308’s at Reading,PA show. The vendor was selling bags of 100’s and I wanted just 1, so no photos here. The “projectile” was formed from the shell’s body. He just rose-crimped them.


#12

For diversity:


#13

Pictured are all of the variations, some quite minor but still different, that I have found having goine thru a fair
quantity of these Czech drill rounds. I do not collect dates - all of these have some visual difference, as chronicled below, besides dates.
If one save dates, they probably could come up with several more of these.

They are described numerically by the variation they represent, with the headstamp given first in quotation marks"

  1. "aym  52"     Brass, short case (22.85 mm approximate) with normal case neck.  Small headstamp letters.
    
  2. "aym  53"     Brass, short case, same as above except with larger headstamp letters.
    
  3. "aym  53"     Lacquered-steel short case (22.81 mm) - not a meaningful difference between the case length of 
    

Number 1). Note bullet jacket is NOT blackened and never was.

  1. "aym 53"      Nickeled-steel short case with "Gold" bullet jacket.
    
  2. "X -  * 3  51"     Brass, normal length case  (25 mm approximate) with shoulder set back to height of 
    

short-case rounds.

  1. "aym  53"     Same as above, except lacquered-steel case and blackened bullet jacket.
    
  2. "X-   * 5  51"     Normal brass 25 mm case with shoulder at the normal height for the 7.62 x 25 mm 
    

Tokarev cartridge.

  1. "aym  43"     Same as above, but lacquered steel case with blackened bullet jacket.  large headstamp 
    

letters. Short flutes in case.

  1. "aym  53)     Same as above, but with medium-length flutes and small headstamp letters.
    
  2. “aym 53” Same as above, but with longer-length flutes and large headstamp letters.

Note that all bullets are clad-steel jackets and tha the primers cups on all are brass, with a small, black-rubber
filling in a hole in the center of the cup. In all cases where no letter size is shown in regard to "aym"
headstamps, the headstamps are what I have described as “large.”

For interest, this picture was taken with a Nikon D80 camera and a 60 mm Nikor Micro Lens, but used pretty much
like a standard lens. The only lighting was the room’s florescent, daylight-balanced tubes. It worked far better
than a scan for me, as it was easy to make the cartridges all straight and equidistant. On a glass flat-plate scanner,
this chore proved to be a nightmare and just about impoosible for me. The scanner,
by the way, is level and so checked with a standard carpenter’s level.

Cartridges from the collection of, and photo by John Moss


#14

I made an error in the caption for item 6. While Item 5 has the normal 25 mm case lenth, Item 6, for some reason, has a long case, being 25.53 mm in length. Why the extra half millimeter in case length, I don’t know. Since Joe posted this for me, I cannot edit it, so had to do it this way.

There are also a couple of typo errors resulting in incorrect spellings - Please forgive them. They are mine, not Joe’s.

John Moss

Edited - important, this edit changes data, not just a correction of typos.


#15

Dummy cartridge with long case was dedicated to be used with czechoslovak army pistol model 52 (vz.52), dummy with short case was for czechoslovak machine guns model 24 and 26 (vz.24 and vz.26).

Regards

jasve


#16

Jasve - is their any documentation to show that use of the dummies? Also, there are three basic types, not just two:

Short case with shoulder farther to the rear.
Long case with shoulder farther to the reaf like the short case.
Normal case length (long case) with normal shoulder.

Are there box labels for these types that perhaps shows their dedication of purpose and pictures of those labels that could be posted here? It would be a good help to us. I don’t mean to question you but this is the third different explanation I have heard for these cartridges, the first two of which came from generally knowledgeable Czech sources.

Thank you for your help on this.

John Moss


#17

A couple of images of ones in my collection