Czech vz.48 box-What cartridge


#1

I picked up this box but is was completely empty. It has a white paper tray. The sides are yellow and the ends are yellow with a wide verticle blue stripe. It looks like an overlabel on a one of the yellow & blue boxes with white letters PISOLENPATRONEN 08/9mm FUR PARABELLUM-PISTOLEN and has a drawing of a cartridge.

Any help appreciated!

Cheers,
Lew


#2

The Czechs had a 7.62 Model 48 cartridge, but I would suppose that yours contained standard 9x19 ball ammo, of the German WWII pattern.


#3

The box is too shallow to hold 7,62mmT. Interesting that both calibers were designated vz.48!

Lew


#4

Lew, why should they not be designated the same model designation when it is following the year?


#5

Lew - Can you show a picture of the yellow box you believe is underneath
this label?

Also, can someone explain the difference between the Naboja vz. 23 and the
Naboja vz. 48? In my collection, the Vz. 23 designation only seems to be
on labels from Slovakia, although the time period of 1951-1953 on those
labels is from when the two countries were still “Czechoslovakia.”

John Moss`


#6

John, could it be the label refers to the vz. 23 submachine gun, not to its 9 mm vz. 48 cartridge?

The book by Smatana does not mention any 9 mm vz. 23 cartridge (only 9 mm Browning Short vz. 22).


#7

May be a box of the 9x19 Valcovy Naboj ammo?


#8

Here the label with altered contrast and color intensity. Makes the writing below the label better legible:


#9

zI used my camel hair brush and warm water and partially lifted the top label. EOD is correct.

This doesn’t help much! W&M identify the “* * * 9m/m” headstamp illustrated on the box as S&B. Given that the label is in German, I’d guess this headstamp dates from 1939 (when Czechoslovakia was occupied, and Slovakia was split off by the Germans) until 1945. However, I have found a number of these boxes, but the headstamp is Brno (Z) from 1947 and 1948. During these years both Brno and S&B were under the same management. I have never documented a box of cartridges headstamped “* * * 9m/m”.

Cheers,
Lew


#10

O.K. Thanks EOD. I have two forms of that box, but I would call
it orange, and the German-language form has a black horizontal
stripe across the top, with rolls over the end tabs forming a vertical
black stripe on each end label. The English language alteration
of the German box has a red tape basically the same width as the
black one on the German-language box. It is, of itself, an over-label.
I had never seen the Czech over-label shown here.

If that box has the original contents, than the headstamp should be
“* * * 9 m/m”, which, by the way, is quite visible on the cartridge
drawing on these original labels.

Peelen - The way it is expressed on the box labels, I mean the “Vz. 23”
I would think it is the cartridge model, but am not sure, because I don’t know
the meaning of the middle entry. It say “Nabojov Ostrych 23” but I don’t
know what “Ostrych” means. Of course, they may have called the load
Vz. 23 because they intended it for the Vz. 23 SMG. So, it could be the
model designation, in their terms, for both the cartridge and the gun. I
simply don’t know.

I have the box by Smatana, which unfortunately I basically cannot read, and
yet it still yields great information even for a linguistical dummy like myself.
I agree that they make no mention of a Vz. 23, but they also don’t show this
box label, of which I have four or five different examples, so it must be common.
That is what prompted my question.

John Moss


#11

Lew, great how nicely you managed to lift off the top label!
Thanks for sharing!


#12

The Czechoslovakian 9 mm Luger cartridges vz. 48 are made with mild steel core and bullet weight is +/- 6,45g. They were primary used for SMG vz. 23 and 25 and ball samples were made from 1948 to 1954, for export with factory code “ZV” in 1956-57. The blanks were made in first period with blue wood bullets, later with rosa crimping cases until the mid-sixties. They were shot from special barrels with internal diameter around 4,5 mm. The bullet jacket in ball samples is nickeled or tombak plated steel and cases are made from brass or lacquered soft iron. The word “Ostrých” after translate is “sharp” and it means " ball " cartridges. The Lew´s box is relabeled older export box for military use, or probably for export too and is quite unknown for me.


#13

They were primary used for SMG vz. 23 and 25

9mm Vz.48 ammo was originally made for 9mm Vz.48(a) and vz.48(b) submachine guns, which were later renamed to SA-23 and SA-25
There should be no ‘Vz’ (Vzor, or Pattern, or Model) along with 23-25 designations, as Vz. is applied only to year of adoption (i.e. Vz.52, or Vz.59)


#14

Moopenker,
Thanks, I had wondered how the Vz.48 related to he Vz.23 & 25!

EOD,
Thanks for the compliment, but I only partially lifted the label until I could tell the lower label was exactly like a box I already had.

THV,
Do you mean that the blanks were made with PURPLE wood bullets? These are the only ones I have encountered. I have never seen a Czech blue wood bullet blank. Below is the box label for the blanks.
image
The cases are all headstamped “O (star) 3 51”. I expected them to be mixed and reloaded fired cases, but they were all a single headstamp so they perhaps loaded new cases, or perhaps both.

Great information, but has anyone ever seen a box for the * * * 9m/m headstamped ammunition?

Cheers,
Lew


#15

Can anyone tell me what the Czech, or possibly Slovak, word
“Ostrych” means in relation to ammunition or firearms?

John Moss


#16

THV above explained it: literally “sharp”, having the same meaning as “scharf” in German or “scherpe” in Dutch, meaning the combat cartridge in contrast to blank or drill.


#17

Peelen and THV - Thank you very much for the translation. I
completely missed that in THV’s explanation, for which I apologize.
Thanks for your patience.

John Moss


#18

Lew, still! You identified it and had a corresponding box to show!


#19

Lew, in Czechoslovakia after WW2, there were used two collors of wood bullets in cal. 7,92x57 Mauser: - red for rifles. - dark blue (Purple) fo MG. They had different powder loadings. In 9 mm vz. 48 wood blanks ammo, only one dark blue (Purple) collor was used . Red collor is known only at 9 mm vz. 22 pistol blank sample before WW2 and this cartridge is quite rare.


#20

Thanks THV! I only really collect 9mm Para so my knowledge of the other blanks is not very good. I have never seen the vz22 blank that I recall, though I have attended the Czech meeting for about 10 years.

When you described the vz,48 blank as blue, I envisioned the Finnish wood blank and the Swedish plastic short range which I have described as blue. I was hoping that you would come back and tell me there was a Czech blank with this same blue and you had many for trade!!!

Again, thanks!

Cheers,
Lew