Czechoslovak 7,62x25 box


#1

Hello, I would like to ask you to deciphering the markings on the label.

Pi-šk-24,26
tbpl/Fe 1312/54-aym
IX-54

Box contains 25 training rounds.


Regards. Ave


#2

I am no Czech scholar, but I believe it says:

7.62-Pistol-MP-24,26
GMCS bullet 1312/54-aym
25 Pieces IX-54


#3

Jon, the “MP” as you say is the “Sk” on the label and is the abbreviation for “dummy”.
The 24 and 26 are indicating the use in sub machien guns, means the cases here have pushed down shoulders/longer necks (at still regular case length and OAL).


#4

Thanks for the update.


#5

I remember reading that these were made for drill weapons manufactured with short chambers. This was so that they could not chamber a live cartridge. Is this information correct?


#6

Falcon - that information probably came from me. I got that from a dear Czech friend of mine, living in the U.S., who years ago defected as an Officer Candidate iin the Communist Czech Army and took 20 people with him through a frontier post he was in charge of at that specific time. It was years before he could go back home safely and visit his parents. This was in the late 1940s - he is older than I.

It involved the Czech “Prague Spring Revolution,” and a Boy’s Communist shooting organization which as I recall, was name Svazarm or something close to that. Jiri told me that because many soldiers, police, etc. had sided with the anti-Russian elements, that steps were taken so they did not have such easy access to arms, and that solid barrels were made for Vz 52 pistols, chambered for this short shoulder round, so that no live cartridge could go into the chamber far enough for the disconnector to allow the gun to fire. It made good sense, and I suspect there was some truth to the matter. However, I have a hunch now, and that is all it is, that these short-shoulder dummies were originally for the SMG. I don’t know why they would offer any special safety advantage over a dummy with normal chamber - in fact, they would be pushed too far into the chamber, likely, for the extractor to remove them, which would be somewhat of a pain in the butt, I would think. In a normal barrel, a live round would still be able to be fired. If there were solid barrels made so young cadets could train with the pistol, but neither be able to use live ammo, nor to have a catastrophic accident with a live round fired in a sold (no bore) barrel.

Regardless, originally I took the story for granted, as my friend is an advanced pistol collector, avid hunter including safaries all over the world, and a serious shooter and marksman (these facts I know - I have shot with him) and extremely knowledgeable about Czech arms specifically. He has visited S&B and CZ factories. His grandfather was a general in the Czech Army before WWII, and Jiri has, in fact, his grandfather’s uniform. Still, now, i wish I could document it because I have come to conclusion that an very large amount of “knowledge” we think we have on guns and ammo is not necessarily true, and I am loathe to accept anything without documentation anymore, even though when I was young, I believed just about anything older collectors told me.

Perhaps one of our Czech friends can help sort out this “solid barrel” vz 52 Pistol business. The box label in question is clear, and documents without argument that these short-shoulder dummies were, if nothing else, for the Czech SMGs. It does NOT mean that they could not have been used for other purposes such as the tale described here, but I have seen no documentation for any other use.


#7

I think we discussed these here many times.

The SMGs vz24/26 are API blowback systems. Using a case with a shoulder will mean that the shoulder will take the energy of the forward moving breech. Witha life round it will not matter as the round will be fired and the case extracted for good.
Dummies will undergo this process many times what means the case will be deformed by the energy it will take with every cycle and maybe jam or being rendered unserviceable at the first use.
Hence the changed neck/shoulder section.

All this was described somewhere in the Czech or Slovak ECRA bulletin. Someone may find it and translate it if neccessary. Hope I recalled it correctly.