Are there pre WWII? What is “JR” in the first 2 chargers on the left?
Yes, the Czechoslovak transliteration of Georg Roth after it was not part of Austro-Hungary anymore.
Sheng - the “JR” monogram was also use as the factory designator on some cartridges. I have a very few pistol-caliber cartridges in my collection with that headstamp.
John-I’m very curious that When did these clip were manufactured and which kind headstamp would suited these stripper clip ；）
Sheng - When I had my 7.9 collection, I had only 13 specimens of Czech-made cartridges with the JR headstamp. The basic headstamp pattern was the same on all of them. I will have to type it here, as I don’t have my 7.9 x 57s anymore, and no photos of this headstamp: 19 / JR / 26/ V / (V = May; JR = Jiri Roth; 1926 is the years of manufacture.
As you can see, it had a four-segment headstamp with dividing lines. The “JR” letters
were intertwined. I simply had no way to show that here. My earliest date November 1924, on a fluted-case dummy round. My latest date was November 1928, which appeared on a rather scarce copper-washed (or possibly plated, I don’t recall) steel case. It was a ball round, with Cupronickel-clad steel spitzer bullet and a brass Berdan primer cup with black primer cup.
Loadings represented in what I had were:
Ordinary ball, both in brass case and in CWS case.
Dummy - fluted case (5 flutes), one deep cannelure on the neck, black rubber snap cap in the center of the primer cup, and 4 stab-type primer crimps. I had two of these, both the same, one from November 1924 and one from August 1928.
Dummy - 2 holes in case, snapped primer (this could have been simply an inerted ball round, although the holes in the case were very well executed).
Blank - pointed purple wood “bullet”, otherwise like ball round - 4 specimens from February 1925 to November 1927 time frame. These usually had a dot • on the headstamp, random position, to indicate a reload, I assume.
Blank - round-nose purple-wood “bullet” from November 1926, with other features like the ball rounds, except no primer crimp of any type.
Your clips could have been used with any of these types of rounds. The small number of variations I had do not necessarily represent a complete time frame of manufacture of this headstamp on 7.9s, but it is a good indication that they date from the mid-1920s.
Of course, it is not impossible that they were used with other Czech headstamps than just those with “JR” headstamp, and equally possible that they could have been used, as left over warehouse stock, with other 7.9 ammunition for years after they were made.
Hope this helps.
John-Great ！！！Thank you for your detailed information.It’s pretty lucky to get answer directly form professional 7.9 Mauser collector
A good idea of of the historic time spread of JR headstamp can be as follows : up to 1919,GR headstamp for Bratislava Factory of Georg Roth of Vienna.
1919, factory taken over and run as a Czech concern Jiri ( Czech)=
In early 1930s, name changed to
MUNICIE a.s. ( circle M), then by 1934, bought by ZB, (Z) and shifted to Povaska Bistrica, Slovakia.
So the actual JR headstamp should have a 1919 to1930 head stamp date at least.
Anybody have more accurate info?
quote=“JJE, post:5, topic:13357, full:true”]
Some years ago I came across a seemingly authoritative description of the G Roth-J Roth-ZB saga, and summarised it for my own information. Unfortunately I cannot now remember what the original source was, but I have so far found no reason to think it seriously inaccurate. However if anyone has any comment I would be glad to hear it. My summary is as follows:
"After WW1, the formerly Austrian city of Pressburg became part of the newly-formed Czechoslovakia and was renamed Bratislava. As a result, Georg Roth’s plant there became “Czechified” under the name “Jiri Roth” (Jiri being the Czech for Georg). It used the “JR” monogram on its headstamps and also as its mark on clips and chargers.
In 1928, following the final collapse of the Georg Roth firm, J Roth came under new ownership and was known as the “Cescoslovenske Munieni a Kovodelne Zavody” (Czech Munitions and Engineering Company). At first they used the “M-in-circle” mark on headstamps and chargers, but by 1932 the style had changed to the “M-in-part-circle” mark, with the bottom of the circle open beneath the M.
However, the Czech arms firm Zbrojovka Brno was seeking to improve its competitiveness by entering the ammunition market and sought to take over the Bratislava plant, claiming among other things that Bratislava was too close to the border with Austria to be a secure site for ammunition production. In 1934 ZB finally gained control of the firm and moved production to its new plant at Povaszka Bystrica, introducing “Z” as its mark on headstamps and chargers."