DAG Action 1 from 2004


#1

At the recent German meeting I picked up the empty box pictured below. Does anyone know what cartridge was originally in the box?

The box is unusual (to me) because it is a very late date for an Action 1. What was the color of the plastic bullet tip?

Cheers,

Lew


#2

Hello Lew,

          I've seen an identical box with a few rounds headstamped SINTOX 9 mm LUGER and brown cap Action bullets (total weight 10.04 g - total lenght 29,3 mm). I assumed these were original to this box.

#3

Usually the color of the number (in this case reddish brown) is the same as the plastic tip. I have only action3 boxes but they have a green number and tip.
Soren


#4

Does the headstamp 9 x 19 DAG04K0815 exist?


#5

RUAG may not have followed the lot-numbering standard back then for Action1 but on cases for Action3 from 2003 in my collection, the type is stamped as 9x19SXA3 and the lotnumber DAG03E0808. There are variants in the lot numbering, but I have not figured those out yet.
Soren


#6

Soren - I don’t think the large number’s color always corresponds to the color tip. The only box I have with a large number (most of my “action” boxes do not have that label format) is for Action 4. The number is red, but the tip color is yellow and the primer seal green.


#7

I did notice that the headstamp for this period actually should be something like “9 X 19 SXA1 DAG04K0815”. Can eanybody confirm it existence?


#8

[quote=“JohnMoss”]Soren - I don’t think the large number’s color always corresponds to the color tip. The only box I have with a large number (most of my “action” boxes do not have that label format) is for Action 4. The number is red, but the tip color is yellow and the primer seal green.[/quote]John, you are probably right, I have never seen any other action boxes ‘live’ than those A3 I found some weeks ago.
The color of the primer seal switches between black and green, maybe depending on where the cartridges are loaded, Thun or the Dynamit AG plant. I have only seen green pa’s on A3’s. (Berdan primed) On the black pa DAG headstamped cases the boxer primer fires through a smaller hole than normal.
Soren


#9

I have no record of an A1 on an Action load headstamp. That is why I found this box label so interesting. I have seen A3, A4, A5, AE and NP, but no A1. I hope someone has one of these boxes with a few rounds in it that can clarify the quesiton.

Fede may have the answer. I have a white Dutch Action 3 box with Sintox headstamped loads. If someone else has a similar box, with the same load Fede describes, we can be pretty comfortable that it is the correct load for the box.

I was hoping for a box with A1 on the headstamp!

Cheers,

Lew


#10

None of the early Action boxes had a number on them, to my knowledge, and I don’t think the headstamps did either. I don’t collect dates, so I can’t make a real comparison, but it would be interesting to know the overlap between Action 1 and Action 2 production. The early boxex don’t call the Action 1 by any name with a number, and of course, they would have no reason to call it “Action 1” until after there was an Action 2. Before that, there would be no reason to assign a number to it unless they knew straight away that they were going to change or improve it later, which doesn’t seem likely.

I would think that the box marked with the “1” is from after the introduction of Action 2, but again, with no dates in the collection, I am not sure exactly when each of the Action Series was introduced, and how much production overlap there was between the variour numbers.

Lew - you don’t have enough to keep you busy, so maybe that’s still another project for you!

Erlmeier/Brandt says the Action Geschoss was introduced about 1977.


#11

John, I have Action 3 loads (with brown tips) dated 1987 and 1988 that are Dutch contract loads. The box pictured is 16/17 years later so is a much more recent production of the old Action 1.

I have a box made by RUAG in Switzerland labeled Action 1 [+P], all in English and sold commercially in the USA with copper colored bullets and a brown tip with a hole. The headstamp is “Geco 9mm Luger +P”. I got this box in 2005 and suspect the ammo in the box pictured above may be the same or a similar headstamp, but who knows.

Cheers,

Lew


#12

This Action 5 box from 2003 has exactly the same format as Action 1 from 2004:


#13

Lew - Good info. That’s what I was eluding to when I mentioned that boxes with a “1” on them were certainly later ones, after other numbers had already been released. The mystery is why they continued to make Action 1 so late. I would think that the higher numbers represented improvements of the action bullet and if so, I wonder why they would continue with a bullet that did not have these improvements. They must perceive different advantages to the various action bullets.


#14

John, the difference between the Action projectiles comes down to the amount of expansion and penetration desired by the endusers. For instance, some of the later Action projectiles do not expand beyond the bullet’s outer diameter. This limited performance standard is due to European LE agencies attempting placate Human Rights organizations bleating about Hague Accord violations.


#15

Were these not meant for combatants only? Police is civilian.


#16

The human rights and criminal rights groups don’t care that the Hague Accords don’t apply to civilian LE. Their argument is that since expanding bullets are considered too inhumane for open warfare that their use is even more inhumane when used outside of warfare.

There was similar whining about police brutality in the US when hollow-points were first adopted by LE agencies in the 1970s. There was further crying and nashing of teeth about the adoption of .357 Magnum revolvers and later high-capacity semi-automatic pistols. Some of these groups in large metropolises were powerful enough to prevent the adoption of hollowpoints for years. Detroit PD still cannot carry hollowpoints, but they were grudgingly allowed to issue the Federal EFMJ.


#17

Yes, sounds like in Germany where criminals have more rights than good citizen.


#18

[quote=“EOD”][quote=“DanielWatters”]… placate Human Rights organizations bleating about Hague Accord violations.[/quote]Were these not meant for combatants only? Police is civilian.[/quote]Absolutely, but try telling that to human rights organizations…
It’s not a problem that the Action bullet takes a tour of the neighborhood after going through the target, as long as its not doing any extraordinary harm…
Soren


#19

Action 1 is the first Action ctg normal sold as so, without the 1, it has a much more square hole in front of the bullet closed with a brown cap without (first) or with a hole in the plastic cap. The Action ctg I have, have a copper bullet, are still in production and coming normaly in boxes with just “Action” It’s the first time I see a box with Action 1.
Jan


#20

Lew,
Here you have some data in a RUAG “Action 1” datasheet from 2008:

  [img]http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/oo255/FEDE_EL_SOMALI/1-26.jpg[/img]