Daisy Pistol Cartridge


#1

Thought I’d show this item that I don’t think I’ve seen on the Forum before…

When Daisy went into the “SoftAir” market in the early/mid 80’s they produced a line of “Detailed Replicas” that shot plastic round pellets fitted in hollow plastic “cartridges”. The “cartridge” had a rubber gasket inside the nose to hold the pellet fast and had the outward look of an autoloading round. The “case” is 15mm long and and the “bullet” is a little over 10mm dia. The actual projectile is a .230" (5.8mm) plastic ball.

The model shown here is a S&W Mod. 59 complete with a metal double stack magazine. The Japanese manufactured airgun is very well made of high end plastic and has functional features that make any “kid at heart” smile. Cocking is done on the forward motion of the slide and the double stage trigger first fires the plunger to shoot the pellet and then releases the slide extracting and ejecting the “empty”. Pushing the slide forward strips another round off the magazine and cocks the air piston for another shot.

Velocity is about 200 fps if I recall right and plays heck on a styrofoam coffee cup. I would guess these have been banned by now as they are way too much fun…

Dave


#2

I assume these are not marketed anymore?


#3

Believe it or not you can buy similar guns in the UK, although the ones sold here load the pellet straight from a magazine (no plastic “cartridges”). Although less realistic, I think this is a better design as there are no plastic cartridges to lose.

They recently brought it another unenforcable law banning “Realistic Imitation Firearms”. The guns can still be sold but they must have at least 50% of the visible surface area painted in a bright colour eg. luminous green or orange. However, any that you had before the ban can be kept without a problem. You can now only buy realistic soft air guns if you belong to a club that uses them in paintball style skirmishing games.

When I was younger I had a full auto rifle that was powered by an 8.4v RC Car battery pack. So much fun in the garden against cardboard boxes. It would also shred empty drink cans at about 15 feet away. When I was that age I could still get away with playing with “toy guns”, but if I did it now I probably look old enough for the neighbours to call the police.


#4

There are several very realistic “soft air” guns on the market that use brass " cartridges" loaded with a single plastic ball. There are even some shotguns that use plastic shotshells loaded with 5 - 10 pellets.

Anyway… soft air guns are legal here in Italy but they must have the barrel end painted in red. Paintball guns are ILLEGAL here in Italy !


#5

[quote=“Pivi”]There are several very realistic “soft air” guns on the market that use brass " cartridges" loaded with a single plastic ball. There are even some shotguns that use plastic shotshells loaded with 5 - 10 pellets.

Anyway… soft air guns are legal here in Italy but they must have the barrel end painted in red. Paintball guns are ILLEGAL here in Italy ![/quote]

So whats to stop a criminal painting his gun red? Great way to make a cop hesitate long enough to take a bullet. I can see these laws being counterproductive.


#6

The best air guns (and very cheap also , at least for France, 100 $) I have ever seen are the ones sold in France a few years ago
In fact they were Makarov high capacity pistols made in Russia.

The first time I saw one I thought it was a genuine one.
I took it i my hands and it was still like a genuine one !

Being surprised I took it apart and I discovered it was a real makarov except two things :
The barrel was in 4 mm
the slide had a grooving cut in the location were is the firing pin.

carrying on my investigations i discovered this gun was made on the same production line as the genuine ones except one operation (the hole for the ejector had not been drilled) and one more (the cutting in the slide).
They changed the barrel for a new one.

The russian guys are very smart as it costed them almost nothing to make these toys except a special magazine (very smart also);
it was a metal part in which you had a tubular magazine to hold the lead pellets and a CO^2 bottle.

Unfortunately they were so easy to transform in a real one (change the barrel and the slide) than they were banned a few months later.

JP


#7

JP
You talk about this gun?MR-654?

It is still in free available.It is about 100-150$.Produced by Izjevsk gun factory.


#8

Vince, I’ve always thought exactly that.

I hate the damn things. As some of you know I sold firearms for a few years. As such I hate having firearms (real or replica) pointed at me. I have forcibly removed them from customer’s (and salespeople’s!) hands. I found the worst people with airsoft were teenage Asian boys (Please note: This is my personal observation and is not racially motivated). They treated them like toys. Hell I’m 20 and I’d like to think I’m reasonably safe. My friend was watching once while I was serving a group of them and said it looked as if I was dancing to avoid the muzzle being pointed at me. In the end I took it off them and told them I would not serve them until they started thinking safety, and if it was pointed at me or any other patron, they were out of the store. The reply-“It doesn`t matter, It’s not loaded.” At this point I decided I was sick of having a weapon pointed at me and asked them to leave.

Right, I’m finished ranting


#9

[quote=“Mechanik”]JP
You talk about this gun?MR-654?

It is still in free available.It is about 100-150$.Produced by Izjevsk gun factory.[/quote]

Hi Mechanik,
No It is not this one.
Too shinny !
i will make pictures this week end.

anyway the people of your country are very smart !
they know how to diversificate their manufactures.

JP


#10

A friend had one of the Daisy models described…an UZI replica. Proper weight and appearance; one of the more realistic affordable replicas I’ve seen. It appeared in my college senior photo, much to the chagrin of the hippie administrators.

The velocity seemed to be higher than 200fps, or rather it felt that way when I was shot with it. Much younger and more foolish back then…(These days its Simunitions or ATK FoF, with extra clothing).

I remember Collector’s Armory also sold/produced some really outstanding replica firearms and cartridges.


#11

Neither of the two Makarovs shown are the air gun. The one in front is a standard commercial form of the 8-shot military Makarov, caliber unknown - either 9 x 18 mm or .380 Auto. The back one is a 12-shot version in .380 caliber. You can tell it is the 12-shot by the magazine bottom. Both guns have after market rubber grips on them.

If anyone wants me to, I will post pictures of the .177 air gun version made at Izhevsk. Maybe I will just go ahead and have my partner Joe do it.

John Moss


#12

Is the magazine well on the Makarov air pistol the same size as on a genuine Makarov? I have seen magazines for replica firearms which are of slightly different dimensions to prevent live rounds being chambered or a real magazine being used.


#13

[quote=“JohnMoss”]Neither of the two Makarovs shown are the air gun. The one in front is a standard commercial form of the 8-shot military Makarov, caliber unknown - either 9 x 18 mm or .380 Auto. The back one is a 12-shot version in .380 caliber. You can tell it is the 12-shot by the magazine bottom. Both guns have after market rubber grips on them.

If anyone wants me to, I will post pictures of the .177 air gun version made at Izhevsk. Maybe I will just go ahead and have my partner Joe do it.

John Moss[/quote]

:( Realy…Sorry I posted wrong image.Here is what i mean.


#14

Izhevsk-made Makarov .177 caliber air pistol, right and left sides. Note the difference in the magazine bottom from the previous picture on this thread.

Collection of and pictures by John Moss.


#15

Alot of the shootings in the UK at the moment are being done with converted Baikal tear gas pistols. Apparently they are re-barreled for ball ammo in underground workshops in Lithuania, where they are then smuggled into the UK. They are also usually fitted with threaded barrels for silencers.

Can you still buy the Makarov air pistol in the USA?


#16

Sorry I duplicated the Mechanik’s pictures. He snuck in ahead of me - a little time gap while I send it to Joe who posts them for me.

I have not seen any of the Makarov air pistols advertised lately, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t still available in the USA. I just don’t know.

John Moss


#17

I have a brass “cartridge” that looks like the one pictured at the beginning of this thread, except mine has a brass plunger in it where you would expect to find a primer, and it’s a little longer. So, what have I got??

Ray


#18

Ray - there are all sorts of these “toy” cartridge. I have one similar to what yours sounds like and it is from one of the Japanese “Non-Guns” that were sold briefly in the USA until they started making all these rules about toy guys and what color they needed to be, etc… I have never seen one of these rounds assembled with what ever cap or other small explosive item, if any, that it uses to simulate firing, so not quite sure how they work.

I have a small collection of these things that came with auto pistol “non-Guns.” My criteria for the collection over the years was they had to be free. I wish I could get a real 8.5 Mars cartridge under that criteria! : ) : ) : (

John Moss


#19

Very interesting input from Europe, farther East and G.B.! Would make sense the “soft air” replicas are popular where real items are less than easy to own. I’ve seen youngsters with the newer types without the “cartridge” program, but they are not authentic looking with many being clear plastic with bright orange parts. But as Mwinter indicated, they are not toys and should be treated like any other air gun and that is as one would should treat any gun. Period. I’ll have to get out the chronograph and see what the thing can do for velocity…

That Makarov is a pretty cool looking BB gun! Does the slide function with the power of the CO2?

Ray,

John’s post reminded me that Phil Butler posted a while back pictures, etc., on an M2 carbine that used cap firing “cartridges”. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7938&p=56058&hilit

Dave


#20

Mine’s a little shorter than Phil’s (no jokes please). I wonder what the firearm looked like?