Danish police MEN headstamps


#1

This is from lot 10015 , found today at the local range.
The cartridges have Berdan primers.

Soren


New danish police training 9x19 from MEN
#2

A lot of MEN ammo is currently doing the rounds of the surplus market. Either they are clearing old stocks or making ammo specifically for the pseudo surplus market as a way of keeping their lines going. That 9x19 ammo doesn’t have the hallmarks of military surplus, it looks distintly civilian to me


#3

Soren,
Very interesting headstamp. I have only encountered this headstamp style once before and that was on an MEN made QD1 load (red plastic ball in tip) made on a contract for France, and this load was dated “03 009” so lot 9 of 2003. The box label is in French.

I wonder if this headstamp style is used for export police/military contracts.

Vince, What is the headstamp showing up on the MEN ammo you are finding in the surplus market. Is any of it 9x19mm? I can’t recall any surplus MEN 9x19mm in quite some time.

Cheers,

Lew


#4

Lew, we don’t get 9x19 because of the pistol ban. we get 7.62x51 in large amounts, silver bullets, and .223 in 30 round boxes (blue label as its known) headstamped DAG but often described as MEN in the advertising. I don’t know the subtle difference between DAG and MEN. Regarded here as being the same, whether that is technically correct or not I don’t know.


#5

MEN and DAG are not the same company. Dynamit A.-G. is part of the Ruag Group now. Metallwerk Elisenhütte GmbH is part of the MAGTECH Group, which includes Magtech Ammunition Compay of Lino Lakes, MN, USA, Sellier & Bellot, CBC of Brasil and MEN. DAG and MEN are competitors and to regard them as the same is akin to regarding Winchester and Remington as the same.


#6

Whilst “Magtech” is based in the USA, and the name change of CBC to the “Magtech” brand occurred several years ago, was it a “expansion by CBC into the US Market”, or was it a US Corporation buyout of CBC of Brazil?..as to S&B, when I visited it back in 1993, it was still a “Joint Stock Company” in Czech hands ( most the the staff from under Communism)…I had heard that "CBC " had bought a controlling interest in the early 2000s… As to the other companies merged into the “Magtech” combine, who actually “bought them out”?

MY view is that “Magtech” was originally just a sales and marketing arm of CBC for the US Market, and this has been expanded (By CBC) to acquire other SAA Assets around the world; after all, the Brazilians have very “go-getting” Industrial companies, in all fields.

It is also good ( advantageous) business practice, having a “corporation” based in the USA, for the “Holding company” of foreign assets…especially for Marketing Purposes within the US…Sales of “CBC” ammo (ie, made in Brazil) have shot up pretty well world-wide since the English label “Magtech” Brand has been introduced. ( ie, with the “US” address----People not in the know tend to ignore the “Made in Brazil” small lettered indication at the bottom of the packet.

Maybe a corporations survey with the US Securities and Exchange Commission will reveal the exact connections between “Magtech” USA, and the Foreign companies absorbed within it.

Interesting how the Ammunition Industries have returned to a pre-WW-I Cartel or Trust system, despite various National Laws restricting such
Anti-competitive behaviours. ( Nammo, Ruag, Magtech, Thales, etc.).

Regards,
Doc AV


#7

I suspect that CBC is the controlling company among the names I gave. My catalog is the American, English-Language version (printed in Brazil, but for the American market, I should have said) and it shows Magtech first, so that is the order I listed them in. CBC was partially owned previously by Remington (Dupont is probably more accurate to say), but when Dupont ditched Remington trying to get away from the “gun issue” I think they sold their interest in CBC also.

I suspect that “Made in USA” was one factor in the Magtech name, but CBC gave up the MRP headstamp and all Magtech ammo now has the CBC headstamp again. I don’t know why any knowledgable person would shy away from CBC “Made in Brazil” appelations on the boxes, since CBC produces better ammunition than many of those making ammo in the United States. It is a lot like Fiocchi - when our store first put in Fiocchi, we had to overcome buyer prejudice for their ammo. Even an Italian-born customer (here in the USA as a small child, so no experience with Fiocchi in Italy) wouldn’t buy it. Of course, we all know it is among the best ammo products in the world.