For you Dardick Fans
That’s really cool! I wonder if there are any other home loads for these trounds? With the advent of 3D printers, I feel like there is potential for a resurgence in the concept.
I have been researching Dardick Tround firearms and ammunition as hard as I can for a couple of years in preparation for the new book I’m writing about them. This is really a great video in spite of his fumbling around with the various parts of the revolver, and it shows in detail just how the gun and its ammunition work. I learned a lot from it, including the fact that the frame halves were made by Alcoa.
However, there were a couple of mistakes at the beginning: The first Tround cartridges were not made from a “1950s thermoplastic.” They were made from aluminum, with a very few made from steel. Here’s a picture of an aluminum example.
The more common green .38 Trounds, which are made of a polyethylene-like material called Celanese Fortiflex, do not normally cost “between $10 and $100.” Right now, there’s a lot of 20 complete rounds for sale on GunBroker.com (lot 789628901) for $99. Of course, the rare, experimental variations can cost $1000 or more. Caveat Emptor.
Can anybody tell me how I might contact the guy who did the video?
The first video on his Patreon page is aptly titled, What’s up with my Chauchat? and that makes me laugh more than I should.
Do you cover the very large black Tround that is for the .45 ACP, or the smaller green one that contains a loaded 9 x 19 mm Para round? I have those in my collection, but know little about them.
John, Welcome back! Aren’t computers fun? Yes, I’ll cover the .45/.45 ACP Tround cartridges, like the one shown below, which is a complete cartridge, not an adaptor case to hold a .45 ACP round.
These complete .45 rounds are pretty rare, but others with the same Tround case dimensions are simply adapters for .45 ACP cartridges.
As I recall, my .45 tround is of the adaptor type. I would not have put it in my collection, likely, were it the type show in your nice pictures. My green one for the 9 mm Para is also of the adaptor type, and same comment about my collection applies.
Hope all is well with you and yours.
Mel- The C&Arsenal bios note that " Mark used to live on a submarine." so he shouldn’t be hard for you to find…
Strelok and JohnS; Thanks for the help. I did find Mark and it looks like he will contribute a lot (I hope) to the book. In our first email exchange, he brought up some very interesting points he learned about Trounds by actually shooting a few. For those who may not know (or care?), I spent almost all of my Navy career flying P3 anti-submarine warfare aircraft, helping keep track of Russian boats. Mark was an electrician on a U.S. nuclear sub, so John’s comment referred to me in my P3 being able to find Mark in his U.S. nuke sub. Problem is, U.S. subs are impossible to find, but I appreciate the compliment, John S.
John M.; Here’s a pic of a Tround 9mm Luger adapter in a mustard-green case.
I measured a 9mm bullet diameter at .352 inch and a .38 Special bullet at the same, so I guess there would be no problem there. Dardick must have used whatever 9mm cartridges were close at hand in testing, so I don’t think the headstamp is significant. Another one has the standard green case and GFL 9M38 1949 headstamp.
I also have a green case with the same load as Mel notes, (GFL 9M38 1949), a WESTERN .38 AUTO and a WESTERN 30 MAUSER in green, and a white case with the same .30 Mauser
My black .45 adapter has a E C S 43 headstamp.
Mel - I had not seen the mustard-green case before. One more to look for.
I agree that the headstamps are not significant, but it IS interesting that all four examples, the two you cite, the one from Pete and my own have Italian military headstamps on them. The M38 9 headstamp is probably from 1944/45 era, and you mentioned green one has a GFL 9M38 1949 headstamp, as does the one Pete has and my own.
Unfortunately, I found mine, which I had not examined probably in some years, now has a large split in the plastic holder. Considering that the plastic is fairly thick all the way around (more at the corners, of course), this doesn’t, to me, speak well of the quality of the material used.
Pete - great to hear about the .38 Auto and .30 Mauser versions. Have never even heard of those, although admittedly, I have never delved into the Dardick stuff much. My black .45
adaptor is loaded with a cartridge headstamped W.R.A. .45 A.C., which has a magnetic bullet, indicating to me it is likely from a military contract, domestic or foreign. It seems Dardick used mostly military surplus rounds in these things, which when he was operating, was generally sold on the market at very cheap prices.
attached here a couple from my collection, a Triple Tround, three sharp pointed bullets about .223 cal. and the black one is a .50 cal.
your three-bullet one is for rock drilling, & the bullets are ceramic.
I’m sure Mel knows more about these.
Mel, were you able to interview any people who were related to the project back in it’s days?
What is the 12.7 with the white centre???
Everyone who has read Mel’s Gyrojet book knows that the Dardick book will be superbly researched, well written, and with outstanding graphics. Mel excels at tracking down obscure information, participants in old projects and amazing experimental items and the stories behind them. Dardicks may be an area few people know anything about now, but once Mel’s book is done it will be amazing what we can learn from an obscure topic.
Gyrojet book readers will probably line up to buy this one, even if they never had any interest in Dardicks. Everyone else should line up and BUY BOTH BOOKS!
Yes, like me!
I have the black .50 cal here on my desk. the white centre piece is a plastic cap, I have removed it in one of the other pics to show the bullet tip.
This was part of a batch sent over here to Kynoch to develop a loading, the guns were to be fitted to helicopter gunships. When the Kynoch factory closed I was able to rescue a bunch that were in store.
Jim, thanks for the explanation!
I never saw a 12.7 or other Dardick with a cap on. Were the cartridges meant to be fired this way?
Somewhere I have a dummy of one of the triple Dardick rounds intended to be used for oil well drill drilling. Problem is I haven’t seen it for a long time so it may have been lost. I doubt that the Dardick drilling system was ever commercially used, but it would be an interesting topic for research. The idea was to fire the ceramic bullets ahead of the drill bit while drilling to break up hard rock, making hard rock drilling penetration go faster. In an earlier life I was a petroleum engineer and I saw this Dardick drilling system setup on display at one of the oil and gas industry trade shows back in the early 1980s, and they were giving out dummy rounds at the vendor’s booth. Sometime in the late 1990s or early 2000s I had a peripheral involvement with the TSA selection of a gun which could be used by pilots and would be kept in a locked compartment in the cockpit. It was felt that a unique gun and ammunition combination should be used, so if was stolen from an aircraft, it would be useless to the thief. I threw out the idea of reviving the Dardick for consideration, but most everyone else thought that it was a little too far out. I was the only one at that meeting (held at FLETC-Glynco) who knew what the Dardick was, or had even heard of it.
in 2007 I had a Rimless Groveless display at SLICS This is what I wrote about the rock drilling Tround.
David Dardick, Tround International Inc. has developed, along with the help of Dresser Industries, a drill bit that fires ceramic bullets so as to pre-fracture, hard rock formations at the drill face, still allowing a somewhat conventional drill to work at the same time. Initial testing found this method to be from 200 to 400 percent faster through hard rock formations, and in side-by-side
testing the Tround bit showed little wear when compared to the conventional bit. An added benefit is that seismic signal measurement is easily accomplished.
The prototype drill bit was loaded with 500 salvos, with the commercial bid holding 5000 salvos. Working on the open chamber principle, a sensor fires the gun when hard formations are encountered.
These are .25 Cal. Dardick Triplex Tround Rock drilling variations, and a 47.2 grain ceramic projectile. All show a 2-piece case, a copper primer in a copper washed steel battery cup, and three ceramic bullets. We assume the case color variations may pertain to a certain load strength, but are not sure.
Photo of part of the display below (see the yellow arrows) with the dummy or clear plastic inert display dummy to left & three of the drilling rounds and a white ceramic bullet.