Dating changes in Peters 9mmP box style in early 60s


#1

Sometime between early 1960 and mid-1966, there were two changes in Peters brand 9mm Luger ammunition.

  • The box changed from the blue, yellow and red pictured below to the blue and white box with the red circle containing a white “PETERS”.

  • Also during this period, the ammunition in the boxes changed from a “PETERS” headstamp to an “R-P” headstamp.

If you have either of these 9mm Luger boxes with date codes starting with the letters T through Z or A through G, Please post the date codes here or send me an email or a message. Ideally provide a photo of the code. Also please indicate the headstamp of the ammunition in the box.

The date code on the blue, yellow and red boxes are generally stamped in black on the end flap like the code S14U on the box illustrated. The first letter identifies the year. The date code on the blue and white boxes is generally printed in red on the end tab like the code G17ND illustrated.

The blue, yellow and red boxes of interest have a BLACK “DUPONT” in a circle on the back as illustrated below.

Earlier boxes have the DUPONT logo in red as illustrated below. The black DUPONT boxes date from 1947 (Year code N) or perhaps earlier. The latest box I have with the red logo is 1953. The earliest black logo box is dated 1958 (Year code P)

When this change was made is also unclear. If you have a blue, yellow and red 9mm Luger box with a date code starting with the letters D through P, Please let me know the date code and the color of the DUPONT logo on the back.

Any help would be appreciated.

Finally, if any of you have other information on why the headstamp and box style changed between 1960 and 1966, that information would also be appreciated.

Thanks and thanks for visiting the “NEW” IAA Forum.

Cheers,
Lew


#2

No box makers codes / names on the end flaps, & the DuPont oval logo is red.

No idea why the change but .22 boxes of a similar layout / graphics are ca .1959 according to Tony Dunn’s A Catalog of 22 Boxes of the USA, and those were a high velocity loading.

These blue boxes with the warning are ca 1963 & standard velocity.


#3

Thanks Pete!

Your 9mmL box is from mid-1947. I suspect that this is from just about at the beginning of the use of this box style.

I am not surprised that .22 boxes changed to the Peters in a circle earlier than did 9mmL. All the manufacturers seem to have changed style on boxes at different times for different calibers, generally depending on when they ran out of the old style boxes.The latest style blue-yellow-red box I have in 9mmL is from mid-1960. The 22 HV box is very nice—too bad they didn’t make 9mmL HV loads.

Hope others have more of these Peters 9mmL boxes to fill in the gaps.

Cheers,
Lew


#4

Does anyone know the date when Remington discontinued the “Peters” brand of ammunition and quit selling ammunition in “Peters” boxes???

I’ve looked at the internet without success—probably my own lack of skill.

Thanks for any help!

Cheer,
Lew


#5

The catalogs of Peters might be of help, think there are a bunch that can be downloaded or viewed in the members section?

Nope on the home page of the IAA upper right is a catalog link. 1980 is the latest & 9’s are offered in it.

edited again to add; I looked in my hard-copies file & nothing later than the 1980’s version posted on this site.


#6

Pete, Great suggestion on the IAA Catalogs!!!

First, John Moss sent me a photo of a Peters 9x19mm box I had never seen-the Duck Box.

This box is date coded C06F which is most likely early 1985, but could be early 1974, but this date is a bit questionable. Peters catalogs back to include1975 show Duck boxes, so it is likely that the Duck boxes were introduced about this time. The 1973 catalog illustrates the Blue and White boxes, and the 1974 dealers list is printed in blue on white paper. New box styles almost always show up first on high demand ammunition. 9mm Luger boxes by US manufacturers, including Remington, typically use earlier style boxes for years after a later style is introduced on more popular calibers. As a result, the dates of use of a specific box style will vary significantly between calibers. I would be very surprised is Remington used the Peters Duck box for 9mm Luger the first year, or perhaps the year before, the Duck box was introduced.

The last Peters catalog in the IAA file is 1980 and illustrates Duck boxes for pistol ammo. Remington could have continued to load Peters boxes after this date until the stock of boxes was exausted, so 1985 loading would not be a surprise.

Does anyone else have an example of a Peters Duck box in 9mm Luger??? If so I would like to know the date code, printed on the side tab that folds below the end flap (see photo of Blue & White box in first post). If someone has one of these boxes that is just taking up valuable space, I can solve that problem also!

The Peters catalogs available from the '60s don’t show boxes as often as the later catalogs. The Blue and White boxes were in the 1967 catalog. The 1964 catalog also shows them, but shows no pistol boxes. The 1961 catalog shows the same style box for .22’s. The earliest Blue, yellow and red boxes are illustrated on a 1955 catalog. There are no CF boxes illustrated in documents in the IAA files from between 1964 and 1955 so it is not clear when the change occurred from Blue-yellow-red to Blue & white. I have a 9mm Luger Blue-yellow-red box dated mid-1960 which is probably well after Peters adopted the Blue & White boxes in other calibers. Peters documents began adopting a Blue & White color scheme in 1959.

Any help on date codes from Peters boxes of the three types illustrated above would be a great help!!!

Cheers,
Lew


#7

Lew, doing 22 boxes for the next sale & a Peters box, using a slightly different layout than this 9mm box, but with the same duck, is noted as a 1977 issue, and a single issue L.R. box in 1988 is also noted. It has the child warning printed in French along the bottom edge of the front, and the end flap has a printed bar-code.

According to Tony Dunn this 1988 style box was issued to keep the trade mark alive.

So does John’s or any one else’s, have a bar-code?


#8

Pete,

Thanks for the information! I have never noted these Duck boxes in 9x19 and John Moss does not recall seeing them in any caliber, except maybe 45ACP.

Does ANYONE have a Duck box in any autopistol caliber, or in any pistol caliber???

Cheers,
Lew


#9

Best I can do is a .30 W.C.F. box, nothing pistol & am pretty sure it was used marketed for shot gun, shot shells, however use in the different gauges of slug boxes is a for sure.


#10

Pete,
A 38 Special “Duck” box is pictured in one of the catalogs.

Lew


#11

It would be interesting to know how the time lines for closing down the various production lines looked. They might have only used this Duck packaging for Peters product that was a big seller aka solid brand loyalty, like the .38 Spl, 30 WCF, 22RF & shot shells?

In 1991 after the Hansen Cartridge show at the Rem-UMC plant / shot tower at Bridgeport Conn. was over Jim T., Dick F., Jay Hansen & I did a walk around. Most of the plant had been moved to Lonoke, but it was still very interesting to see, & as it hadn’t yet been swept up, to pick interesting stuff up off the floors. Going from one building to the next was also neat via walkways on the floors being indoor & I remember one lower floor we could look down into being full of file cabinets, (50? or more?) some of the doors were open & full of paper. Oh my, oh my, oh my.
Anyhow long story to say for the most part the different buildings were dedicated to the separate companies lines. ie Peters shot shells had it’s own building. Could have spent a week there.


#12

Lew, I think that a clue would be the Order Number, which in the 9mm box sent by John must have a “P” prefix (i.e., P9MM1 or P9MM2). This was a number assigned to Peters Cartridge Division Products that was introduced during 1974 and used for the last time in the 1980 catalog (made public during 1979). On November 19, 1979, DuPont and Remington executed a definitive merger agreement and on February 1. 1980 it was made effective and the latter became a wholly-owned subsidiary. After this, the Peters brand was discontinued and no longer included in price lists.

It is likely that after 1980 Remington continued distributing Peters brand cartridges until stocks became exhausted, but I find doubtful that they were manufacturing these in 1985.

Regards,

Fede


#13

Fede, Great info as usual! From 1966, all 9mm in Peters boxes had R-P headstamps. The only thing uniquely Peters about the items after that date, including the Duck boxes, was the Peters boxes.

Cheers,
Lew