DCCo 57 Snider Cadet?


#1

Has anyone ever saw the DCCo 57 Snider ctg listed as a “cadet” on any DCCO box labels, ctg catalogues or company literature? It certainly was not a reduced load (cadet) as it was loaded with 5 more grains powder than military ctgs. On certain forums the DCCo 1 5/8" 57 Snider ctg has been called a cadet round and this is now accepted as the DCCo designation.


#2

I am not the best person to answer this on the forum but I do have an input from a military history perspective. I don’t think I have ever encountered a snider rifle at auction that had a cadet connection* and I cant recall any mention of any of these rifles ever being issued to cadets. They don’t strike me as being particularly suitable. They are a harsh rifle to shoot, even for me at 6ft 2" and the wrong side of 200lbs. This is not a rifle to give to scrawny kids.

you can never say never of course but for it to be a cadet cartridge first find the cadets. I would have rather thought that any cadet force would have been supplied with ammo through Govt channels. So if it was a cadet load I would have expected a paper trail which people like Tony are very good with. Did dominion ever supply military ammo in this calibre, I wouldn’t know

Another idea, maybe a bit remote but as we have a Canadian connection. Could the word cadet, which is itself French, have another meaning in French. In converting the sniders they also shortened the doner musket. Could this mean something along the lines of carbine?
A lot of these rifles when they finished their (fairly brief) military career were bought up by the likes of Wesley Richards and sold very cheaply into the Empire market of which Canada would probably be the best example so the final possibility is its some sort of brand name possibly for the French part of Canada when they were traded. The ammo was made commercially well into the 1930s so the rifles would have had much more of a life post military. Wesley Richards also sleeved a lot of them down to their .450 varient calibres which was devious because it locked the buyers into buying their ammo for years to come. I love Wesley Richards they were so smart.

5 grains of black powder is nothing of any significance, except as you say it is over rather than under. It could even be an overlap in the interpretation of the original loading specification which would possibly have been in drachms for which there are variations since I believe it was originally a measure of volume. To be honest, its not going to make any difference ballistically. more than that goes out of the end of the barrel unburned. The factory loading was around 90 g I think from memory and it could be cut by 25% with little loss in power.

  • a lot of cadet rifles were stamped with the name of the cadet force or the school. Usually on the woodwork. Brighouse School CF or similar. Probably more likely BSCF

#3

I have never seen the appellation “Cadet” applied to any Snider rifle or ammunition here in the UK, but of course the question has arisen in Canada which kept the Snider in service far longer than the UK or other Commonwealth country.

Canada also introduced drawn brass Snider cases into service which again never happened in the UK, so there are a number of specifically Canadian versions of the Snider round are not commonly found here. I think it needs a Canadian to give a definitive answer to this.

Regards
TonyE


#4

I have been collecting Snider ammo and rifles for some time and I am a credited contributor to a book on the Snider. The first time I saw the DCCo 1 5/8 " 57 Snider ctg referred to as a “cadet” was on a US based web site on British military arms. I believe that an individual made an assumption on seeing a 57 Snider ctg that it was a “cadet” or carbine load similar to the US 50 carbine which was a shortened 50-70.
The only two Canadian made Snider military ball

ctgs I know of were Boxer coiled MkIX equivalents ,one with the paper wrapper lacking the red stripe and the other without paper, both made at the govt ctg factory in Quebec City 1884-1891.


#5

Hi,
Im not an expert but I remember an article on American Rifleman anbout 577 Snider and the author metion that barrels were shortened to 19" so the rifles can be issued to cadets. I can scan the article if you want.
Martin


#6

beleg2, In 1905 thousands of long Sniders were converted to the configuration of the cavalry carbine for drill purpose by the high school cadets. AFAK they were not intended for fireing and there is no record of govt purchases of the DCCO 57 Snider ctg.
It appears that the “cadet” designation originated with one individual who made a wrong guess and used the net to spread his misinformation.