Mike, Welcome to the IAA Forum! Thanks for posting.
I have a lot of MagSafe 9mmP cartridges but don’t think I have this load, at least not under this name. I have no MagSafe loads with only epoxy filled jackets, but that sure does not mean they don’t exist.
Any chance for a photo or a scan. Send it to me by email and I can post it.
I think the “Fast Harball” is mostly known from being mentioned in comparison tables in the “Stopping Power” book from Marshall & Sanow (where it is listed at just under 2000fps). I also think it is one of the many experimental loads that Zambone did that had no real packaging, like the “Mahi”, “Lite Full House”, “Critter”, etc… I wonder if the “Fast Hardball” was one of the prototypes for the eventual “Swat” load which turned out to be a hollow point filled with epoxy only? The 9mm Swat, however, weighs only 45gr, while the shot-filled “Defender” weighs in at 60gr.
One possibility for the short-lived nature of anything like a FMJ epoxy-core load that goes nearly 2000fps would be that it would rip through Kevlar vests, and given the negative fallout that followed in the wake of the dubious “Black Rhino” loads from Signature Products, I can see Joe Zambone backing away from producing something like this if it were in the early phases. These might also have been an FMJ version of his “Agent” and meant to function better in auto pistols also, who knows…
Matt, I have both 60g and 65g SWAT loads (mostly from around '89) and all have shot in them. The 60g SWAT has an overall weight of 130gr.
I weighed all my MagSafe that have opaque tips and only one weighs less than 126gr and that is one that I got quite recently (2010) with a black opaque tip and it weighed 119gr oaw indicating a bullet of just less than 50gr, still a long way from a 40gr bullet. I don’t have a packet or label for this round so I have no idea of the name, but I suspect it is a pretty recent loading. It is on a WIN case.
There of course were MANY, MANY MagSafe loads and many are impossible to distinguish. I know John Moss has many that I don’t have cause I looked at his a couple of weeks ago.
Does anyone have a MagSafe load with no shot or one that weighs less than 119gr??? A 40gr bullet should result in a load of about 110gr.
Here’s a photo I found of the 9mm 45gr Swat. Ammotogo sells them:
And some internet searching reveals several mentions of at least some of the “Swat” loads, if not all of the Swat loads being of the sort that are “epoxy only” with no shot. I Googled the phrase: Magsafe Swat “no shot” epoxy which turned up lots of discussion of Swats with yellow resin and no shot. I would almost be certain though that there are Swat loads out there with shot for whatever reason though since Zambone used to do so many variations. The ones that come to mind in 9mm are: Critter, Devastator, Swat, Defender, Agent, and a few abbreviations that I can’t recall the meanings of like AH, AV, AP, AW, and DX.
Here are the 9mm Magsafes that I have, and most of them are 60 or 65 gr, with the exceptions being the modern Swat load at 45gr (3rd from right), the DX on the far right is about 90gr, the clamshell profile jacket one is 55gr, and the Agent load (5th from right) is only 40gr:
The bizarre ones which include some fairly low-production trial type loads are shown below in some 44mag’s that I have. They have names like “Max velocity”, “Full House”, “Lite Full House”, “Mahi load”, “Mahi Mahi” (fish reference?! - I don’t know)…:
And here are some odd .357mag and .45acp ones that I have:
George Kass and John Moss probably have some explanations tucked away somewhere on all this stuff, and I am sure that I am missing several other variations.
MagSafe’s ‘Fast Hardball’ was intended for places where JHP, JSP, et al were frowned upon (New Jersey for instance).
To the best of my knowledge, it did have specific ad/marketing/packaging/etc., but I’ll have to do some serious digging in old magazines copies to find it. If memory serves, the round appeared externally to be loaded with a FMJTC projectile.
Without jacket it would be hard to identify except it should be at least 40g lighter than JHP bullets. I don’t think I have anything that fits this bill. Would probably need packing to identify it. Could be WIN or RP headstamp.
Thanks for info.
Lew, I finally got to checking my Magsafe 9 mm rounds. I do not have as many 9 mm as I do .45, but out of
33 different 9 mm, I found only two with FMJ bullets. First is one with a truncated, GM FMJ bullet loaded into a yellow-brass case headstamped R-P 9 MM LUGER. Total cartridge weight is 130.1 grains weighed on an RCBS electronic scale. I noted on the round “Magsafe 60 Gr Duty.”
The second, on which I have no note, has a FMJ GM RN bullet loaded into a nickel-brass case headstamped “WIN
9mm LUGER.” Total cartridge weight is 124.3 grains which should put the bullet weight at somewhere around 55 grains, plus or minus. I don’t know if the Remington case would be heavier than the Winchester, of vice-versa. They should be somewhat similar in weight, though.
I hope this is of some help to you.