Dissassembled 7.65x54 Turkish Mauser cartridge


#1

Hi to all!
There are a couple of pics and info about 7.65x54 Turkish Mauser cartridge, manufactured in 1908 (۱۳۲٦) (with spitzer bullet):

This is the wholw bunch:

The case and bullet:

Case weight: 11,12 g (171,61 grains) Bullet weight: 9,90 g (152,78 grains)

And this is the powder charge:

Charge weight is measured 2,77 g (42,75 grains), but is likely to be more, since I had spilled off some powder grains. Sorry!

Cheers!!


#2

Due to the Vagaries of the Turkish Ordnance Year dating system, it may be 1908 0r 1909 in Gregorian Years ( Turkish Ordnance Year starts in
April, and is 354 days long;, also the Turkish year, is based on CE 584 ( Coming of Age of the Prophet) plus the Script year ( rough estimate)…allowing for the Fact that the Prophet’s coming of age is taken as being in June or July…makes for a very “approximate” dating when transposing a Turkish date to a Gregorian system, before the establishment of the Republic ( which abolished all the various religious based calendars, and replaced them with the modern Gregorian system.)

That said, it is known that in (Gregorian) 1908, the Germans helped the Turks establish a modern Cartridge making facility in Turkey, to replace the cartridge loading and reloading plant then at the Istanbul Rifle Factory. Up till then, ammunition for the 7,65mm Rifle was either obtained ready-made in Europe ( Germany and Britain (Kynoch), or assembled at IRF from components supplied by Germany. Powder, especially, was German Gew.B.P. ( Rifle Flake Powder) as used in the 7,9 cartridge.

Turkey did not manufacture its own powder until the late 1920s, with the setting up of a dedicated Nitrocellulose Powder plant by ASFA ( see History of ASFA and MKE (K) on the MKE web page).

So it is hard to say there this particular cartridge was made in Germany, or assembled in Turkey from components supplied by Germany, or actually MADE wholly in Turkey. ( German made ammo and components were HS with Turkish script). If it was a later calendar date, say 1910 or 1912, I would accept that it was wholly made in Turkey; but as a comment in one biography of Ataturk mentions, (at Gallipoli) “It is fortunate for the Engilisi that the ammunition is British-supplied,( for the MGs) as it is of a lesser quality than the German-supplied ammunition!” ( so there is still pre-War Contract Kynoch ammo in use in 1915).

Any way, a very nice early example of Turkish-Use 7,65 Ammo…I have several Gallipoli & Palestine bringback rounds of 7,65, all with 1912 and 1913 dates ( estimate from script), which I can say, with some certainty, are “Turkish made”.

Doc AV
AV Ballistics
ex 2/14th QMI (LH) Regt.


#3

Thanks for info!
I beg a pardon, Doc AV, I mean that the round is for Turkish Mauser rifle (sorry, can’t remember exact designation of the rifle), not Turkish made. The Turks, as far as I know, had assembled their ammo from imported parts (bullets, cases, primers) prior and during Russo-Turkish War 1877-1878, and only load them with their own black powder. But I don’t know nothing about these processes in post Russo-Turkish war time.
Besides, I’m Bulgarian, and this same Russo-Turkish War we call it The Russo-Turkish Liberation War (Руско-турската Освободителна война), since we were part of the Ottoman empire than, and after 1878 we had obtained some relative independence.

Regards and thank again!

P.S. I forgot to mention, that the material of the bullet jacket is cupro-nickel plated mild steel.