Dubt about 9 German Luger WWII


#1

Hi,

Do any of you know if there is documentation on all the factories, lots and years of the 9 German Luger during the Second World War?
If it exists, where can it be found?

Thank you.

David R


#2

Davrib - I don’t know of any single source for all that information. I don’t know of any source that documents every lot and year for the German WWII 9 mm Ammo. In my own library, the only effort on that subject I have is the nice series on 9 mm Headstamps by Lew Curtis. He documents lot numbers he has or has observed, as I recall.

For manufacturer information, it depends on what you want to know about them. If it is simply a matter of identifying which letter code goes with which factory, that is covered in the original German code lists, republished as a book in Nürnberg in 1977, "Liste der Fertigungskennzeichen für Waffen, Munition und Gerät, originally published in parts by the Oberkommando des Heeres, Chef de Heeresrüstung und Befehlshaber des Ersatzheerer,
Heereswaffenamt Wa Z 2. I don’t know where that book can be found today.

There are also a couple of more recent German books on the subject, which include the number codes, which are NOT covered in the aforementioned compilation of original code lists.

I will send you an email about another option on this subject.

John Moss


#3

There is no current compilation of all the lots. I think we have captured all of the manufacturers and are pretty close to knowing the highest and lowest lots. It is interesting that some of the lots are missing from all the major collections and are often the same lots which may simply mean they were all sent to the Eastern Front so none show up in the EU countries or the US, where huge quantities of WWII German P08 ammo was shipped as shooting ammo.

Unfortunately, I haven’t updated the lot information in my Guide in a decade or more and the guides are not organized by country but rather by headstamp code.

I know of no official German list from WWII listing 9mm P08 manufacturers.

Cheers,
Lew


#4

Lew - I am taking care of that. I made up a list some time ago, extracting the information from various sources.

To check the codes, you reverse the process in deciding which code is which factory. You look up the code from the headstamp, and find the factory from various sources. That’s what I did, checking for every known code from all the German books on the subject and the reprint of some of the original official documents.

John M.


#5

John,
When you get that done, I can check and add the earliest and latest Dates and lot numbers known.

Am back working the Labbett-Mead-Edwards Archives. Big job, some boxes have hundreds of files with no names. Last night I was reviewing some and adding meaningful names to the files and documents, I found a set of drawings on the British composite bullets from the 1980s. This stuff is a real treasure trove. We may see the first of these files in the Members Only portion of the IAA website in the next few months!

Cheers,
Lew


#6

The book by Michael Heidler on Fertigungskennzeichen, which is bi-lingual and also includes the older codes (like P 25), is available again. It is much more useful than the simply re-typed list by Pawlas from 1977, because it is cross-referenced.


#7

I agree with Peelen. While I have found the Pawlas reproduction of 1977 very useful, I am always starting with the letter code to look up who it represented. However, that rendition of the original German letter-code list, which was originally issued in parts as the “new” letter codes were assigned, does not deal with the number codes at all. Also, since it is simply a manufacturer’s code list, it does not deal with what those letter-codes are found on, ie: the product of those factories.

The more current German works like Heidler’s book is a superior reference for collectors.

John Moss