Dutch 7,62x54R Nagant?


#1

As the weather today was sufficiently damp and chill to keep me indoors for part of the time, I spent some of it rummaging through old note-books. In one I found a reference to a lot of contract 7,62x54R ammunition produced for Imperial Russia by the Artillerie-Inrichtingen at Hembrug, probably in 1905 or 1906.

A supplementary note suggested that the Nagant clips marked with a circled X;


were supplied with this ammunition.

Did this contract exist? Is it true about the ‘X’ marking? How much 7,62x54R ammunition was produced outside Russia before 1914? If the ‘X’ marked clip isn’t Dutch, is it known from where it does come?

Happy collecting,

Peter


#2

[quote=“enfield56”]As the weather today was sufficiently damp and chill to keep me indoors for part of the time, I spent some of it rummaging through old note-books. In one I found a reference to a lot of contract 7,62x54R ammunition produced for Imperial Russia by the Artillerie-Inrichtingen at Hembrug, probably in 1905 or 1906.

A supplementary note suggested that the Nagant clips marked with a circled X;

were supplied with this ammunition.

Did this contract exist? Is it true about the ‘X’ marking? How much 7,62x54R ammunition was produced outside Russia before 1914? If the ‘X’ marked clip isn’t Dutch, is it known from where it does come?

Happy collecting,

Peter[/quote]

Hi, Peter!

Very good clip and headstamp! My congratulations

This is Austrian clip, made by Hirtenberger. Specially for Russian contracts Austrian manufacturers - Weis and Hinterberger use Russian letters - B for Weiss (in Russian Вайс) and X for Hirtendberger (in Russian Хиртенберг)

Some time ago I post the headstamps of Russian contracts 1905-1906, there was B and X manufacturer marks on the cases:


#3

It’s the only one of it’s kind I’ve ever had but its been a bit over cleaned with wire wool.

I have a couple of ‘W’ marked Nagant chargers but has anyone seen a ‘B’ marked one? I think the ‘W’ ones are Austrian production from 1914-1918 to make use of the huge numbers of Nagant rifles and carbines captured on the Eastern Front.

Thank you for the information, I thought the Netherlands was an unlikely source but in the world of arms contracts you can never be sure. I suppose these contracts were to restock ammunition supplies in Russia after the war against the Japanese.

Happy collecting, Peter


#4

[quote=“enfield56”] I suppose these contracts were to restock ammunition supplies in Russia after the war against the Japanese.
[/quote]

Actually the orders were placed during the war when Russia realized that they had almost no ammunition left in the western part of the empire. If somebody would have attacked Russia from the west there wold have been very little to bring up against.
This is also the reason why Russia produced after the 1905 war large quantities of cases and projectiles and stored them away as a strategic reserve. Special plants were foreseen only for loading of cartridges in case needed.


#5

Where has this indication come from that the Dutch supplied the Imperial 7,62x54R???

Hirtenberg did have a Dutch Plant at Dordrecht, at least after WW I;
Could it be that they had set up this plant earlier, say about 1900, to supply Holland with 6,5x53R ammo? Initial ammo for the Dutch Mannlichers came from Austria with the rifles (G Roth Patent Berdan primer system ) and Polte also supplied Dutch ammo pre-WW I ( 1900–1910?)

Could the Dordrecht plant have been subcontracted by Hirtenberg to fill the Russian order?

regards,
Doc AV
AV ballistics
Brisbane Australia.

Another cartridge Mystery…

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.