DWM case info


#1

I found at the german show a 4 gauge all brass shell

Here are the excat dimensions :
rim diameter: 29
base diameter : 26.4
neck diameter : 26.3
inside diamter : 25.6

The base is flat and the headstamp is 4 DWM 4 47 AE

What is the meaning of 47 AE ?
It doesn’t look to be a DWM number.

Thanks
jp


#2

Hello JP,

This is a flare case found in several lenghts and rim configurations. As far as I know there is no current explanation for this figure. The same goes for cases headstamped with numbers 143 A and 366 A (maybe lot numbers in these last cases?).


#3

[quote=“Fede”]Hello JP,

This is a flare case found in several lenghts and rim configurations. As far as I know there is no current explanation for this figure. The same goes for cases headstamped with numbers 143 A and 366 A (maybe lot numbers in these last cases?).[/quote]

Hi Fede !
Hum, I don’t think they are flares.

here are some pictures.
First you can see the brass flare from DWM : bird DWM bird K and the paper flare from RWS : RWS 4 have both a rebated slanted rim
And the rim is traight for the brass case : 4 DWM 4 47 AE

This is surely a way to make the difference between a flare and a shell.
But more important is the fact if you look on the standards for ctges and chambers dimensions you will see the slanted rim shells have a rim diameter bigger than the minimum chamber size definned in the different standards.

Therefore I think they are 4 gauge shotshells.

Of course, like in France and other countries they perhaps can use these shells to make flare because they will chamber in a flare gun

JP


#4

Hello JP,

All the cases headstamped 4 DWM 4 47 A.E I have seen have flat bases. These can have various case lenghts up to 120 mm and different rim configurations according to flare color (plain rim, half knurled rim, and full knurled rim). In my opinion there is no doubt that they were originally produced as flares. Some of these were used by the Argentine Army.


#5

Hi Fede,
thanks for the info.

What are the lengths you have seen ? 82, 100; 120 mm ??

Originally designed as flare and not shotshell there is still a doubt for me.
(As I told you we also have in France knurled rim on 4 gauge shotshells cases which were designed long before people used them as flare cases)
Without the meaning of 47 AE I am just guessing.

47 AE is not a lot number and must mean something.
Perhaps a german guy can guess the explanation of AE ??

Thanks

JP


#6

Argentine 4 ga. flares made by A.A.M.Z./A.A.Z. for the Navy also have solid brass cases with the same small diameter thick rim present in this German 4 ga. DWM 47 A.E case. None of these have knurled rims for color identification.


#7

JP
I note you refer to a “bird” in the DWM headstamps. I think this is meant to be considered a “flaming bomb” symbol.

We had one of these 47 AE in a sale awhile back, & for what it is worth, it was sold as a flare (empty case) & I didn’t hear back anything different.

Glad to hear you had a good show & are out & about.


#8

[quote=“PetedeCoux”]JP
I note you refer to a “bird” in the DWM headstamps. I think this is meant to be considered a “flaming bomb” symbol.

We had one of these 47 AE in a sale awhile back, & for what it is worth, it was sold as a flare (empty case) & I didn’t hear back anything different.

Glad to hear you had a good show & are out & about.[/quote]

Hello Pete

yes it is a flaming bomb, you are right.

About me, “till no DWM document is found proofing the opposite”, it is a 4 gauge shotshell at the origin which was used later as a flare.

The same way the frenchs and the britishs did with their 4 gauge shells.

About the Britishs they even did the same with their 1 1/2 punt gun cases (which were originaly with a length of 8 1/2 and 9 3/4 ) to use in Very pistol with lengths of 4 inches, 8 1/2 and 9 3/4

In the Eley drawing for exemple the title is “punt gun ctge case for Very pistol ctge” and show lengths of 4 , 8 1/2 and 9 3/4 inches.
But if you take a look on the same drawing number, but older, you can read about the title : "punt gun ctge case " and show lengths of only 8 1/2 and 9 3/4 inches.

In such a way they took a case originated designed as a shotshell to used it in a flare gun.

And you have of course shells which were never designed to be used in a shotgun but designed specifically from the beginning to be used as flares .

Very often the dimensions (rim and so on) are slightly different in order (at least in the beginning) not to enter a shotgun and these dimensions don’t have to follow standards (for the country or international).

And these last ones for me are typically flares shells, not shotshells adapted for economic reason to flare use.

JP


#9

Looking for some help. I am a Antique Decoy collector and at a recent show a fellow came in with a “old” leather shell box filled with brass shotgun shells. I know most of the regular shells but this one is new to me. Markings are[ DWM then a K left and right of the primer then Kal.12 on the bottom. Can anyone give me some information on these caseings or where I could find the info. Est. of value?? Thanks Craig C