DWM-What Catalogs & Drawings are Known


#1

By which armies (GB, US, French) have the different DWM manufactures been discovered first?
In which occupied zones have they been after ?
thanks
JP


#2

What?


#3

JP,

The Karlsruhe plant, and any other facilities DWM owned near Karlsruhe were in the US Zone of Occupation.

I don’t know which Zone in Berlin the DWM Berlin plant was in, I have a vague memory (which isn’t very reliable any more) that it was in the Russian Zone, but one of the German Forum Members can correct me.

Cheers,
Lew


#4

The Luebeck plant was captured by British forces and fell into the British zone of occupation. While Karlsruhe was in the American zone, it appears (per Wikipedia) to have been captured by French units. Jack


#5

Thanks to all.
I am still looking for DWM drawings of ctges.
I am never seen one.
Has anybody seen one and where was it coming from ?
Thanks
JP


#6

The area where DWM Berlin was located (as well as a subsidiary of Mauser located within the same complex) was occupied by the Russians, who stripped it of just about anything. Control of the district then passed to the British forces. The former DWM site was kept running as the ‘Vereinigte Werkstatten Wittenau’ (VWW), but was later returned to it’s rightful owners who re-established it as a heavy machinery, transportation equipment and machine manufacturing plant. Still under the DWM name, but imaginatively altered to ‘Deutsche Waggon- und Maschinenfabriken’ (Germain Railroad Car and Machine Factory). The Karlsruhe branch was renamed ‘IWK’ (Industriewerke Karlsruhe) and continued to produce packaging machines, ammunition, machine equipment, etc… They merged with ‘Keller und Knappich’ in Augsburg to form IWKA (Industriewerke Karlsruhe Augsburg). A few years ago the company moved it’s main office to Augsburg and returned to the ‘KuKa’ (Keller und Knappich) company name.

The old DWM works in Berlin-Wittenau have been listed and restored and house a number of different companies and organizations. This includes the German war graves service and the Berlin State Archive.

The Lübeck plant was only a stone throw away from the iron curtain, so it lost it’s strategic value quickly. Many of the buildings, with their unique rooftop foilage camoflage, still stand today.

The Karlsruhe site was sold off in the 1970s and most of it has been demolished. Part of the main factory building was restored and is now a cultural centre.

I had a chance to study the DWM documents that were returned from Russia to Berlin. It was a small pile with nothing relating to ammunition. Parts of it were a lease contract with OTIS for the company lifts and a lease contract between Mauser and DWM for the use of part of the complex.

The personal archive of former DWM / Mauser owner Dr. Günther Quandt have been released a few years ago and are now available to researchers in one of the German archives.


#7

thanks.
In which archive ?
thanks
jp


#8

I have been through the listing of the munitions documents that were brought back to England by the Allies for intelligence exploitation at Seven Oaks in Kent. This was the stuff gathered by the CIOS/BIOS teams and others. Very few DWM drawings. In almost 40 pages of listed reports there were only 8 reports by DWM that indicated drawings were included.

I understand much of the material was lost in transport and never got to England. Below are listed the DWM drawings that were cataloged.
-Miscellaneous drawings of small arms ammunition components and tools for assembly. DWM. 1944-45
-Full manufacturing details and drawings of an 8 mm steel infantry cartridge case W. 605 supplied to Sweden. 1944.
-Drawings of steel cartridge cases of various types and calibres (15 mm for MG 151, 2 cm for MG 151/20 for Oerlikon, FFM etc. also 3 cm for MG 101 and MG 108). DWM. Polte & Rheinmetall-Borsig. 1940-44
-Full details including drawings of a 6.5 mm steel infantry cartridge case designed for export to Sweden. D.W.M. 1944.
-Drawings of experimental 7.92 mm ammunition. DWM. 1944-45.
-Drawings of 15 mm. ammunition of various types, including components. DWM. 1939-43.
-Drawings of various types of 2 cm. ammunition. (HE/T and HE/T (practice) H.E. ammunition with electrical “bridge-type” fuzes etc.) DWM. 1944.
-Drawings of 2 cm. ammunition. Complete Madsen blank cartridges including components and charge. DWM. 1940-43.

In the mid-1970s the Imperial War Museum was kind enough to give me access to some of this material. It was stored in London, mostly on old microfilm. There had been a fire that destroyed some of the material, and more if it was misfiled because of the confusion caused by the fire. Frequently the label on the container bore no relationship to the microfilm contained. Huge amount of great data. I came away with a lot if stuff on 9mm development, particularly for the SE bullet and the British IAA/Forum members have dug out a lot of interesting stuff. Here are examples of a couple of the interesting (to me) reports that once existed that I have not seen.
-Correspondence and patent for the manufacture of cartridge, cases from zinc alloys. V.D.M. 1940.
-Development of pistol shot in “C” steel. Chrome-molybdenum steel without tungsten. DWM. 31.5.44.

I had heard that the Russians cleaned out what was left of DWM Berlin. One of their new pistol cartridges, according to a Russian book, was based on one of the ultra rare 9mm Mauser experimental cases, which also shows the DWM Mauser cartridge! Clearly they got some DWM material.

I was told by a well known ex-collector who lived in Karlsruhe that much of what was in DWM K was taken out to farmland and put in a big pile (much of it munitions) with a number of US bombs or explosives set in it and blown up. Result was to scatter this material over a wide area which was became a park. 30 years ago, the Germans (including my friend) were using metal detectors to search the park and were finding all kinds of stuff. Finally the Germans put dirt over it all to bury the material and no longer allow metal detectors—or so I was told by the ex-collector who gave me some of the items. It is possible many of the old drawings were in that pile!

Many of you know of the DWM Case and Bullet logs that Fred Datig, and others have located, and that Fred used as the source material for his book on DWM cases. Reportedly these logs were transcribed from an earlier log that dates back to the origins of DWM, before it became DWM. and the logs we have were copies made sometime after 1906 but before 1913 and probably before 1910. These would be great documents to find, and they could have been taken to Russia. They would contain the interesting data on early cartridges that is missing from the logs like the one Datig found because it was obsolute when the later logs were copied from the original. There was apparently another DWM log of the larger caliber items which were also assigned numbers but are not in the sequence of the existing logs. I have never heard that one of these logs still exists.

This earlier log would contain the case drawing (sketches) of the 9mm Luger cases 480, 480A and 480B which were dropped before 1904 when the 480C case was offered by DWM. Similarly, all the information on the early 9mm Luger bullets (278, 278A & B, 278D & E) unknown! None of this information was copied into the later logs.

Wouldn’t it be great is one of our Russian members unearths these books. Collectors are eternal optimists!

Cheers,
Lew


#9

I have photocopies of about 20 drawings of DWM cartridges that came from the late Manfred Stegmüller in the1990’s when I was writing my books.

These photocopies have often been ‘clipped’ near the edges probably due to the larger size of the originals. Only about 4 are clearly marked as DWM, most appear to be Mauser drawings, some including chambers but clearly showing DWM cartridges. All are sporting or military rifle cartridges from 1906 to the 1920’s.

It appears that original DWM case drawings are indeed rare.


#10

The Hessische Wirtschaftsarchiv in Darmstadt.
(Abteilung Nr. 2017).

This is mainly information from the private archives of the Quandt family, which were used as a basis for the book ‘Der Aufstieg der Quandts - Eine Deutsche Unternehmerdynastie’ by Joachim Scholtyseck. That book was published after public accusations against the family as a result of a German TV Documentary on the use of slave labour workers at the AFA (Varta) company during WW2, which was part of the Quandt group.


#11

There are some newer aerial photos on this page:
dwm-schlutup.de/neue.htm

Soren


#12

Regarding DWM catalogues, I know only a few of them:
1882
1884
1891 (french german)
1895
1902
1904
1908
1926
1932 (french)
1935 export (german)

Do you know others ??
thanks
JP


#13

This is my checklist of Lorenz/DWM/BKIW/IWK catalogs:

c. 1886 - Export
c. 1886 - No. 1
1891 - No. 2
c. 1892-95 - No. 2a
1904 - No. 3
1911 - No. 3a
1926
1928
1930
1930 - Zusammenstellung ballisticher Angaben
1932 - German
1932 - French
1934
1934 - Patrone u.Schuß
1935
1935 - Export
1936
1937
1937 - English
1937 - Patrone u.Schuß
1938
1938 - Export
1938 - Engros-Liste
1939
1940
1941
1953
1957
1963
1971

Edit: 1937 English & 1938 Engros-Liste added.


#14

Fede, that’s a good list, all I can add is :

That one listed as #2a is probably the one named DWM 1902 (handwritten)-

There was also a " Catalog additions to catalog No3" dated june 1908
(which should be the 1908 that Jeanpierre was referring to)

There was also:

1931 - I have only seen the cover
evidently a 1956 - but I have not seen it myself

“engros-liste” (wholesale price lists ?) for 1934,35,36,37,38,39 - and also
"Inland" catalogs for several of these years -but all these appear to have the same content as the normal catalogs. - I have cover images of most of these

That 1928 is news to me ?
I have yet to confirm 1940 & 1941 catalogs for sure ??


#15

Brad, I have not seen those 1940 & 1941 myself, I took those from someone elses list. I have a copy of BKIW 1928 catalog in english language.

I have edited my list with your additions and corrections:

c. 1886 - Export
c. 1886 - No. 1
1891 - No. 2
c. 1892-95 - No. 2a (probably dated 1902 -handwritten-)
1904 - No. 3
1908 - No. 3 Engros-Liste
1911 - No. 3a
1926
1928
1930
1930 - Zusammenstellung ballisticher Angaben
1931
1932 - German
1932 - French
1934
1934 - Engros-Liste
1934 - Patrone u.Schuß
1935
1935 - Export
1935 - Engros-Liste
1936
1936 - Engros-Liste
1937
1937 - Engros-Liste
1937 - English
1937 - Patrone u.Schuß
1938
1938 - Export
1938 - Engros-Liste
1939
1939 - Engros-Liste
1940 - (not confirmed)
1941 - (not confirmed)
1953
1956
1957
1963
1971


#16

Yes
What is strange is the fact between 1911 and 1926 there is nothing.
JP


#17

Brad, I also have a DWM undated catalog titled “Jagdbüchsen-Patronen Ballistische Leistungen” that mentions date “April 1961” in page 4 and “June 1956” in page 25. Not sure if it’s the same as “1963” or maybe is the “1956” that you think it may exist.


#18

I just noticed these are two different catalogs. New list:

c. 1886 - Export
c. 1886 - No. 1
1891 - No. 2
c. 1892-95 - No. 2a (probably dated 1902 -handwritten-)
1904 - No. 3
1908 - No. 3 Engros-Liste
1911 - No. 3a
1926
1928
1930
1930 - Zusammenstellung ballisticher Angaben
1931
1932 - German
1932 - French
1934
1934 - Engros-Liste
1934 - Patrone u.Schuß
1935
1935 - Export
1935 - Engros-Liste
1936
1936 - Engros-Liste
1937
1937 - Engros-Liste
1937 - English
1937 - Patrone u.Schuß
1938
1938 - Export
1938 - Engros-Liste
1939
1939 - Engros-Liste
1940 - (not confirmed)
1941 - (not confirmed)
1953
1956 - (not confirmed)
1957
1961
1963
1971


#19

Another update:

c. 1886 - Export
c. 1886 - No. 1
1891 - No. 2
c. 1892-95 - No. 2a (probably dated 1902 -handwritten-)
1904 - No. 3
1908 - No. 3 Engros-Liste
1911 - No. 3a
1926
1928
1930
1930 - Zusammenstellung ballisticher Angaben
1931
1932 - German
1932 - French
1934
1934 - Engros-Liste
1934 - Patrone u.Schuß
1935
1935 - Export
1935 - Engros-Liste
1936
1936 - Engros-Liste
1937
1937 - Engros-Liste
1937 - English
1937 - Patrone u.Schuß
1938
1938 - Export
1938 - Engros-Liste
1939
1939 - Export
1939 - Engros-Liste
1940 - (not confirmed)
1941 - (not confirmed)
1953
1955
1956 - (not confirmed)
1957
1961
1963
1971

Additions: 1939 Export and 1955.


#20

There is some confusion in your list for the catalog 2A. It is listed as:

[quote]c. 1892-95 - No. 2a (probably dated 1902 -handwritten-)
[/quote]

These are actually two different documents. DWM did print a Catalog 2A with only rifle bullets I believe-no shotshells. I got a Xerox copy from Fred Datig who said it was from 1892, but I believe it is actually from about 1895. The catalog itself is not dated.

There is an unpublished catalog from 1902 that is still partially handwritten that showed up a couple of years ago-or that is when I first learned of it. An excellent copy has been produced and sold. No shotshells in it either. There is nothing on this draft catalog to indicite it was #2A. I believe it was intended to be #3 but was delayed for a couple of years because it was being worked on just as DWM and Luger were working to produce a pistol a pistol cartridge for the Luger that would interest the British and the US. Once he had this cartridge worked out, it was first illustrated in Catalog #3 of 1904 (probably created in mid-to-late 1903. Or, since I only collect the 9mm Luger cartridge, that is what I think!!!

Thanks for a great list. It is really a useful bit of research. I will have to go through it and see which ones I have a record of.

Cheers,
Lew