Earliest Ball, M1?

We know Ball, M1 was adopted in 1925 according to Hatcher. Also in 1923 they were testing different degree boat tails (based off the Swiss GP90 FMJ) and settled on the 9 deg one to become Ball, M1.

However I have a box that has FA 21 headstamps.

Was M1906 production stopped and put on hold while they were working on M1 Ball and this was made from earlier components?

The box states it’s powder F.N.H. Army lot 1471- 1922
Ammo lot F.A. 1645

When was the first official lot of M1 ball?

Wish Ray was here…lol

First lot using M1 designation is number 900 from 1926. Looks like your box was refilled, because lot 1645 dates from 1933 and should be headstamped F A 33.

Can you show a picture of your cartridges with F A 21 headstamp?



Does anyone have a copy of “Drawing B 10985” they can post?
Searched, but did not find…

Interesting side note, the reason auction sites, in this case gunauction.com, should not be used to evaluate value, a similar sealed box, (although not in as good shape), sold last year for $7.63.

Its not repacked. The top label is intact the side came open during shipment. 4 clips of FA 21 ammo with copper jacket FMJ. Powder lot is from 1922.

Was this stored brass that was set aside then loaded or is it test ammo with “F.N.H.” powder whatever that is. Doesn’t sound like a Dupont brand.

Can’t the phone to focus correctly right now but its nothing more than “F A” at 10 and 2 position and “21” at the 6.

Maybe the seal was carefully repaired, because in my opinion it was refilled with old cartridges. Other reasons are: a F A 21 headstamp belongs to a M1906 load and not an M1; drawing B 10985 dates from November 7, 1925; 775-10 did not existed until 1926; this powder lot was made by Dupont and used by FA for this load during 1933 (F. N. H. stand for “Flashless Non-hygroscopic”).

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Well it’s M1 ball.
47.7gr of FNH powder
173.1 gr M1 ball bullet.

The plot thickens.

Apparently FA used older or reclaimed cases to load this particular lot.

I pulled all the ammo from the clips. The clip tabs were bent fully over with no evidence of being “reloaded”. And in random order…

I found:
12 FA 21
4 FA 21 -R
3 FA 22
1 FA 23

Box was definitely re-filled. Headstamps should as Fede says be F A 33 and all should be the same.

Tabs on clips can easily be folded back a few times before breaking.

Refilled with factory loaded M1 ball? WITHOUT damaging the label?

Sides / ends of these boxes are easy to open & re-glue without damage to the label.

So why would they replace it with M1906 1921-23 cases factory loaded with M1 ball?

OR FA used older cases for that lot.

Can you post detailed pictures of the cartridges, headstamps and components?

I can…but all you are going to see is factory loaded ammo.
173.1 gr M1 ball round.
47.7gr FNH powder
F A 21 brass with crimped primer in place.

Sorry if this sounds a bit fresh but it’s not intended to be.

Why does anyone do anything?
Just that some things folks do have no easily deciphered reasoning behind them.

No worries…

Here are the closeups…

So any new theories on this? The crimp looks different like it was adjusted to recrimp a previously crimped round.

Note, the BT FMJ adopted was based on the Swiss GP11 bullet, NOT the GP90, which was flatn
Based and round nosed!!
Swiss-made Bullets acquired and
first trialled at Daytona Beach over 4000 yards, to see extreme range out of M1917A1 Browning. After that FA started trial batches with different powders, finally settling on 11xx Series IMR by Dupont.
Doc AV

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