Early DWM box-What Caliber?

A friend recently sent an image of the DW&M box below. The caliber is simply described as 9mm. It looks like a pretty early box to me, but I could be wrong.

Any thoughts/opinions/information appreciated, as well as images of similar boxes.



edited to include a larger image of box label.


I think that “D. W. & M.” with the ampersand, is pretty early. I could be wrong, of course. The size, for DWM, is unusual. I recall most of their 9 mm boxes being for 50 rounds. It mentions being for a self-loading pistol. Did you measure the depth of the box? In the pictures, it gives the impression of being fairly deep in relation to the size of the top label. That might give a clue as to which 9 mm cartridge it was for. I don’t have time now, but a look at the DWM case register to see which, if any, 9 mm cartridges were made earlier than the 9 x 19 mm Para might help, also.

John Moss

The box had a single cartridge in it headstamped P28 * 2 39 which I am sure was not original. I have documented 9mm P08 boxes back to 1911 and 7.65P boxes back to 1906 and both are 50 round. My guess is it might be a 9mm Bergmann Bayard since that is DWM #456, but that is only a guess.


I´ve never seen a Label, which says xx Patronen “Karlsruher” zur…Selbstlade…

Why having this word specially mentioned, when it is obvious, that it comes from DWM Karlsruhe??

The size of the box can be for 9mm Bergmann-Bayard, or even the 9mm Mauser…


Lew - If you have the box, and you have a cartridge - 9 mm Bergmann-Bayard, 9 mm Steyr,
.38 ACP (even, since it is only the length that needs checking) or any other 23 mm case-length cartridge - try it for fit. If you have a 9 x 25 Mauser, or even a 7.63 Mauser round, you could try that also, per Forensic’s suggestion.

John M.

I only have a photo of the box. I will see what I can do.


Perhaps whoever has the box would send you the measurements - height, width, etc. including the inside measurement of its height.