Early Italian auto-loader


#1

Whilst looking through some old magazine articles I happened across this illustration of an early Italian auto-loader. It’s a Vitali, tested for use by the Italian Navy but rejected in favour of the Mauser C’96.

Does anyone have further drawings or a photograph showing the loading clip in more detail?

Happy collecting, Peter


#2

I have tried to find the patent using a surname of the inventor, but have not found. To this picture the text has been added? I can find the patent using the information from the text. And could you make a picture the larger size and send it to me on the address: 2m-outrage@mail.ru


#3

What calibre was it?


#4

I asked about this pistol on another forum a year ago and got no response, It is very similar to the illustration you provided. The picture of “your” gun seems to show a bottle necked type cartridge. The notation on the picture of the gun I provided said the gun was from 1910 and was chambered for 9mm Glisenti. Could “your” gun be chambered for 7.65 Glisenti? I can not tell from the pictures. Please forgive my ineptitude in resizing this photo. I did the best I could.


#5

The text at the bottom of the drawing shows that the cartridge was in 7,65mm calibre. The scan of the page is quite a large one but once you start increasing the scale of a part of the page then the quality gets quite fuzzy. The only mention of the pistol in the article is this;

“The Glisenti, another 7,65mm, began to be mentioned in contemporary documents at about this time, along with the double action 7,65mm Vitali. Previously, Italian manufacturers had designed prototypes inspired from Mauser and Mannlicher models.”

The cartridge is definitely a bottle-necked design nut best I can do with the pistol and charger is this;

Happy collecting, Peter


#6

As far as I kn0ow the 7.65 mm Glisenti cartridge was developed by the Glisenti factory along with the Glisenti pistol in 1906.

Since Italy used the C96 pistols later I think it is possible that the Vitali pistol was chambered for the 7.63 mm Mauser cartridge.

A 7.65 mm Vitali cartridge is also a possibility… there are several experimental italian cartridges that did not survive beyond the experimental trials or even existed in the drawings only


#7

For those that didn’t read my article in IAA on 7.65 Glisenti, while there seems little question that the 7.65 Glisenti cartridge was designed early on in the 20th Century or at the end of the 19th Century, the known cartridges are an enigma. All known specimens were made by DWM, most coming out of one box that was originally either at SIG or the ammunition factory at Thun in Switzerland. The box and label style would indicate that the cartidges were actually made in the late 1920s or early 1930s!!! Further, British field test reports of the 1906 7.65 Glisenti pistol originally trialed in Italy indicate thru drawings of the cartridge headstamps, obtained in Italy with the pistol tested, that the caliber of that pistol was actually 7.65 mm Parabellum - the Standard DWM 471 cartridge, with some of the cartridges (from Italy) tested having the standard K DWM K 471 headstamp and others having a headstamp from Bologna never seen on 7.65 mm (.30 Luger) by any collector I know, nor reported in any of the Italian cartridge Books. Further, an early “X-Ray” drawing of the 1906 Glisenti pistol shows cartridges perfectly shaped like 7.65 mm Parabellum in the magazine, not rounds with the high shoulder of the 7.65 Glisenti cartridge. An earlier drawing of one of the Revelli prototypes shows cartridges well represented in form as the 7.65 Glisenti with high shoulder! The later drawing, along twith the British test reports, leads us to believe that the cartridge representations in both of the drawings are accurate.

A real mystery. Since I know someone who has a Vitali pistol, I am going to pursue this, but it may take some time.

John Moss