Early Remington Kleanbore boxes


#1

I posted a picture of a Remington-UMC box of with a small dogbone KLEANBORE logo overlabel in a recent 8mm Pieper thread. Following the introduction of Kleanbore priming in 1926, it appears the pasted on labels were employed in order to use up the old format (Remington Arms Company, Inc) early-to-mid 1920s boxes on hand prior to commencing use of the new ‘dogbone’ Kleanbore boxes. Here are two pictures of another of these old format boxes with paste-on overlabel, this one a 25 round box of 9mm Browning Long with the same dogbone Kleanbore label as used on the Pieper box, as well as a larger overlabel attached to the bottom and one side that explained the advantages of Remington Kleanbore cartridges.

Can anyone explain why Remington would have packaged these cartridges in 25 round boxes rather than the 50 rounds that were the standard for handgun ammunition? I have an earlier 1913 ‘combined Remington UMC logo’ style 9mm Browning Long box with just 25 rounds, so these half size boxes were used at least from 1913 through 1926 for this cartridge. I have included a picture of the earlier box.


#2

Guy - these were packed in 25 round boxes, I am sure, because the majority of this ammunition was for export. I believe a lot of it went to Sweden for the commercial Husqvarna versions of the Model 1903 FN-Browning 9mm Long Pistol. The U.S.C.Co. box label even names the Husqvarna Pistol, which was virtually unknown in the United States at the time, and is also 25 round. That quantity was the normal for European boxes of the time.

I have never even been able to find where the U.S.C.Co. production was even catalogued by them, at least in domestic catalogs. If anyone has a U.S.C.Co. catalog that shows it, I would surely like to have a scan, preferably of the whole catalog, but if not, of the Title Page and the page the 9mm Long is on.

I bleieve it was catalogued by Remington, but have no catalogs that early.

From the total production, I doubt that there were many 9mm Long-caliber pistols at all in the U.S. at the time this ammo was made. I only can think of four pistols existing at that time in tyhat claiber - the FN-Browning, the Husqvarna Copy, the Model 1909 Webley and the French Le Fran


#3

John,
Neither of these two REM-UMC boxes mentions a specific pistol; they only state they are ‘adapted for 9mm Browning automatic’ firearms. That most were for export would explain why I haven’t run across many of the REM-UMC 9mm BL headstamps in my years of collecting.


#4

The 9mm Browning Long with a 110gr. Metal Cased bullet and the 9mm Browning Short with a 93gr. Metal Cased bullet are listed as “New” loadings in the 1917 Remington-UMC catalog. I only have the Dealers price list, so it does not list what guns they were for.


#5

Guy - yes, you are right. While not rare or even scarce, you do not see any quantity of 9nmm Browning Long ammunition by REM-UMC. Much scarcer is the one by U.S.C.Co.

It is only the U.S.C.Co. box that mentions the Husqvarna pistol. I have only the lid of a box, and that in shabby condition, sent to me from Sweden by a friend years ago. One of my Remington boxes came from Sweden also. My Remington boxes are better condition, but no great.

I have never seen the boxes you have, with the overlabels. They are fabulous. thanks for posting them. I did not picture any such box when I wrote a two part article for the IAA Journal on this round, as I had never seen one. My two boxes differ only in two minor aspects. The “REMINGTON ARMS UNION METALLIC CARTRIDGE Co.” line on one is much more curved than the other, because it is a four line entry, have “Ammunition & Firearms” directly under it. The other one is a three line entry, and does not have that line at all. One side label, the one that says “Specially adapted for 9m/m Browning Long Auto” has “See Guarantee on bottom of box.” The other box, in the same location, has “Remington Arms Union Metallic Cartridge Co.” in handwriting style of printing.

Thanks for posting those pictures. Great additio to my rather large file on this caliber.


#6

The first Retail catalog for Remington Arms Company, Inc. I have is 1923. Here is Page 122 from that catalog. Note three things: 1) Still no specific arms listed 2) the bullet weight on the 9mm Browning Short is now 95gr. instead of 93gr. 3) The box size for the 9mm Browning Long is listed as a Box of 50.


#7

Thanks John and Ron for the information, which is a great addition to the rather small file I have on this caliber.

I have only two REM-UMC examples of US made 9mm Browning Long, with different primers and bullet finishes. I haven’t seen a US Cartridge Co headstamped example - I guess I need to get out more.


#8

Ron - it is interesting that they show the 9mm Browning Long packed in 50-round boxes. Have never seen one or heard of one in my life. If anyone has one, I hope they will post a scan on this Forum. I would love to have a picture of it for file.

The timing of the 1917 catalog is right. I don’t want to rewrite the U.S. part of my article on this caliber here - many of the Forum members should have it (Issues 443 and 444, 2005), but I will try to summarize for those that don’t. Although named the Model 1907, Husqvarna of Sweden did not start making their rendition of the Model 1903 FN-Browning 9mm Brng Lg pistol until 1917.

The case of the U.S.C.Co. box is odd. The color of the box - an orangish-yellow, should date it from before about December 1915, but the wording on the box makes that almost an impossibility. The box says “Designed for Husqvarna and other Automatic Pictols” on the lid. It is hard to accept that U.S.C.Co. would have entered into a small production for commercial sales in Sweden for this ammunition in 1917, with America just entering WWI, even though Sweden was a Neutral Country. However, it is not impossible. These rounds have the “US” intertwined primer, as well, which was discontinued, I believe, about 1926 when Winchester acquired the Company. I would place the actual dates of probable manufacture at from about 1918/1919 until about 1925. It is also widely accepted that this was not a Swedish Government contract at all, but rather for commercial sales in Sweden. Sweden made this caliber as early as 1910, for the FN-Brownings they purchased before making the gun themselves. A search of catalogs and price lists from USCCo dated from 1913 until February 5, 1936, found no listing for this caliber at all.

Remington is a different story. The UMC production log, continued for a short time after the merger with Remington, lists the entry “9m/m Browning Long M.C., Jan. 1914 Commenced making for export.” There is no further entry. Now, did they really actually continue serial production, with the War in Europe beginning? Hard to say. The round is not listed in the January 1914 Remington-UMC catalog, but it is, at the least, found in Remington catalogs from January 1917 until February 1917, again timed very well for the production of commercial pistols of this caliber in Sweden. The 1922 Remington Catalog includes the 9m/m Browning Long among the newly introduced “Oil-Proof” cartridges for automatic pistols.

Guy - a comment you made about two different bullet jackets interests me. My notes and my collection, three different rounds (U copper primer, U nickel primer, plain nickel primer) all have tinned bullet jackets. I have never seen a Remington round that didn’t. Doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Can you expand on that comment?


#9

John,
I have one listed as copper jacket - I’ll need to look under magnification to determine if it hasn’t just had the tinning worn off. The two I have came from a display, and the fellow who put it together over-cleaned many of the cartridges. I have the primers listed as copper (U) and nickel.