Early Remington shotshell headstamp


#1

I recently came across an all brass hull, the headstamp has REMINGTON. (with the period and it is around the top on an inner slightly raised portion) on the bottom it is marked 16-B. (with the period) The interesting part is it is a 20 ga shell, It is the same as an all brass Winchester marked #20 that I have. I believe from a post that is number of years old this is dating to around 1878 as someone (JP) asked if anyone has seen one with an A or B
Anybody have any info as to why this would be?
How rare?
Value?
Thanks


#2

I think the “A” was for a gun with a chamber and the “B” was for a chamberless gun.




#3

krag56

PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW A CHAMBERLESS GUN CHAMBERS AND FIRES A SHELL? I ALWAYS THOUGHT, NOT NECESSARILY CORRECTLY, THAT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN “A” AND “B” SHELLS WAS WHETHER THE SHELL WAS TO BE USED IN A GUN CHAMBERED FOR BRASS OR PAPER SHELLS.


#4

My understanding of the “A” and “B” is the same as GWB’s. I learned it the hard way. Many years ago I bought a used double barrel 16 ga. But when I tried to shoot it I found that it was chambered for the “B” brass case and would not accept any of my paper cartridges. I managed to find a few of the brass cases and some wads, so I was able to handload for it. I got rid of the shotgun as quickly as I could which was another lesson learned the hard way. It seems that they were far more valuable than the “A” chambered guns.

Ray


#5

The term “Chamberless” was used by British makers to indicate a shotgun without forcing cone that was designed for thin wall brass shells with standard outside dimensions.

A well known source explaining the difference between American A and B shells are UMC 1880-82 catalogs: “Brass Shells stamped ‘A’ are right for guns chambered to use Paper Shells. Those stamped ‘B’ are for guns chambered to use Brass Shells only”.

Here is a much more extensive and somewhat redundant explanation published in 1873:

"An ‘A’ shell has the same outside diameter as the paper shell of the same gauge and a gun which will take the metal with also take the paper shell of the same gauge because their exterior diameters are the same. A ‘B’ metal shell, on the contrary, has the exterior diameter the same as the interior diameter of the paper shell. A gun which takes this sized metal shell will not take the same gauge paper shell. The ‘A’ shells are made to fit the chamber of the gun. The ‘B’ shells are made to fit the caliber of the gun.

The reason for making metal shells A and B is this given by the Parker Brothers, whose guns are made exclusively for metal shells: ‘The breech-loading sporting shotguns which were first introduced used paper shells, the gauges of which seem to have been made exactly to the standard gauge, thus a No. 10 paper shell gauges just 10 (in speaking of “the gauge” of all shells, the reader must bear in mind that it is the measurement of the INSIDE of the shells)’.

Those metal shells which are 10 gauge are marked ‘10 B’. Why? Because they are exactly 10 bore. The contraction of 10 bore makes it 10 B for convenience in stamping on the end of the shells. Being made of much thinner material than the paper shells, [10 B shells] are, of course, not as large on the outside. Therefore can not be used in a gun chambered for No. 10 paper shells; hence the manufacturers of metal shells were obliged to make a different size metal shell and still call it a No. 10 for it was to be used in a gun chambered for a No. 10 paper shell. Of course it could not be called a 10 bore, for it must be made thinner than a paper shell and still of the same size on the outside to enable the sportman to use it in his 10 bore gun. The shall made accordingly of thin metal and same size outside as paper shell which, when we come to gauge it [the inside diameter] is found to be above No. 10 gauge. But, it must be called No. 10 or else there will be confusion, so it is called ‘Above 10 Gauge’ or by contraction ‘10 A’ (above 10).

If reader will bear in mind the thickness of metal shells and the gauge (inside) be will never be confounded as to what A and B means. Remember the ‘B’ shells are the same bore or gauge (inside) as paper shells, but being thinner are smaller [than a paper shell on the] outside. ‘A’ shells are the same size [as a paper shell] outside, but above bore or gauge (inside) of the paper shells".


#6

I have a 10 Ga. brass shell headstamped “REMINGTON’S 10” without any “A” or “B” indication. It measures at the head about the diameter of a standard paper shell so I assume it would be considered an “A” type case. Does this variation pre-date the advent of the two case varieties?

Dave


#7

When the first breech loading shotgun’s were built did they have a chamber or was it a simple piece of pipe with no chamber like its predecessors?
Just courious.