Economical stupid fake or made on order ? Winchester box with maker Keller&Co Hirtenberg 38 Calibre

Here just an empty box of a Keller&Comp.Box for 38CF cartridges, but it says Manufactured by the Winchester Repeating Arms Co, and underneath Keller&Comp Hirtenberg, completely in the style of the old Winchesterboxes…Even at the inside it shows: In reloading these Cartridges…Winchester Primer No 1 1/2

The drawing number of the frontlabel from Keller is 195, and from the inside sticker it is 199a…
So what is it: A blauntly fake, or really made for Winchester??
As I have no cartridges in this box. does anybody has one to show the ammo which was originally in this boxes?? Please picture than the ammo here…

Thx in advance

Its not the best shape, but I havent seen one ever before

Maybe is Mötz to tell more?

Great box, regardless of who made it. My initial reaction was that it wasn’t Winchester because early Winchester boxes have a single line framing the label. However, when I checked, my two oldest 9x19mm boxes with print dates of 9-6 (Sep 1906) and 2-9 (Feb 1909) both have double line borders identical to the ones on your box.

There are some differences. The Winchester name on your box is both capital and lower case letters while on my two boxes it is all upper case. The letter style is also different with yours being taller than on my box. A third obvious difference is that the Winchester name on our box is followed by a single period, whereas my boces it is a period, followed by a comma.

Finally the Winchester print dates have a dash between month and year. If your “195” is a print date (Jan 1995) then it lacks the dash, but it also makes your box 20 years older than mine.

A wild guess is that it could be Winchester ammunition, packaged and sold by Keller & Comp using a vaguely Winchester style label!!!


I somewhat agree with Lew that it’s packaged & sold by Keller & Co, to look like Winchester, but think the ammunition was made by Keller & probably just had a “.38 S&W” headstamp. However I have no proof of that. Edit see the next post that they did make it but that the below & this box are of the same?
Two Winchester boxes. The blue is a smokeless box & the green is one of 5 of the box (green label) variations.
Also the inside label so the differences can be seen.
Edited to add I have only these two label colors so don’t know if a tan label exists,

WRACo 38 S&W box inside label

Suppose I should have looked at the collection before i replied.
K&C 30 S&W hs