Would this Egyptian 7.62mm round have been made by Egypt or made for Egypt? I’ve got a suspicion it may have been made by France.
those came in typical Egyptian 50 rd boxes. What are your clues to think so?
The box for this round was pictured on this forum 3 or 4 years ago. It was in English implying it was made for an English speaking military. It seems to me unlikely that the Egyptians would have ordered ammunition for their Arabic speaking troops packed in a box printed in English.
I did a quick search but couldn’t find the old post, but am not very competent at Forum searches. Sorry.
Nothing substansive Hans. It was sold to me as an ‘Egyptian contract’ round.
Municion.org describes the headstamp as ‘being made for Egypt’.
And for whatever reason I have pencilled in my notes for this round ‘Manurhin’ but I don’t know where that information came from.
Municion is not known to be the source for exact info though.
I’m somewhat confused guys! Hans is saying that these came in typical Egyptian boxes but Lew is saying that they are from English labelled boxes…
EOD, I quite agree but I wanted to put that little bit of info into the melting pot.
Jim, I think Hans meant to say it is Egyptian production for export. At least this is my understanding of these rounds/boxes.
Got it! Thanks EOD.
Jim, Here is the box label. I had some buried in my ammo room and it just took a while to dig them out. Wish I knew who these were made for.
Lew, that’s great! Thank you. Can I push my luck and ask the name of the Egyptian company manufacturing this?
NO such thing as an “Egyptian Company” – Egypt is a Socialist state, and all Ammunition production is Government controlled and owned, even if, for Legal and Financial Purposes, the Plant will have a “Company” structure.
Other Point, Manurhin ( Manufactures de Haute-Rhin, Mulhouse, Alsace, a French “company”( nationalised at the time) specialising in Ammunition manufacturing machinery) has had much involvement in the supplying and setting up of SAA Plant through-out the Middle East, since WW II…Part of the Contracts included Initial “test run” batches" to “prove” the Machinery trains…with the Headstamp selected by the Commissioning country…this could run to Millions of rounds. ( made in Alsace and delivered with the Machinery.)
As to the Use of English Language Head stamps, this is quite common in Middle Eastern Ammo, specially if a wider Market is looked at, or if it was needed for “Covert” ID…ie, Arabic script would instantly ID the ammo as Middle Eastern, whilst English would make it a bit more difficult to attribute as to origin.
Note that Egypt, inheriting British Ammunition production standards, with a bit of Swedish and then Russian-Soviet thrown in, would have similar Packaging strategies ( .303 and 7,9mm in a “Brit” type 50 round pack (Identical to British 48 round carton); 7,62x39 in a 50 rounder as well, and for export this size was just right as well.
The 1994 dates would make it right for the Burgeoning Commercial export trade to the USA ( “non corrosive primer”) and also the “Shelf life” Indication ( Not normal for Military ammo, the Military goes by the “Rule of Fives”…
A.R.E. Arab Republic of Egypt Country of Origin marking…so “not clandestine” and most probably “Commercial”…ie, for export to the Western hemisphere.
my wording was not precise. I should have written Egyptian style. And yes, the label is in English.
Absolutely no excuse necessary - thanks for your help Hans.
I do not think this ammo was intended for commercial sale in the US. A case or two showed up with other Egyptian ammo in Mil Surplus that came into the US 4 or 5 years ago. I got my boxes from a shooter who had one case which came with his buy of a number of cases of Arabic marked Egyptian ammo, or that is the story as I remember it that came with the ammo and the boxes. he had shot up most of it, but had saved the empty boxes and sent me a number of them. He did initiate another thread on this subject which likely provides more data.
The headstamp was likely specified in the contract, Manufacturer, Caliber and Date. My guess is that it was made by Government Factory 27 which did all the 9mmP ammo made in Egypt and most of the other small arms ammunition. The only other small caliber factory I know of is in Alexandra and makes shotshells and such as far as I understand. Others will know a lot more about where Egyptian 7.62x39 is made and John M will know more about the factories.
DocAV is on target about Manurhin. Their production samples associated with machinery sales are a wonderful source of headstamps. I have an Uzbeck case from their sample production.
Crates for these were for 2000 Rds. Very rough wood, a little over an inch thick ,sheet metal liner in box, also stenciling on the out side of crate was in Arabic, no English.
Charles. J. Wells (Jack)
Sgm. USA. Ret.
Jack, great to hear about. Do you happen to have images of these crates?
No longer have a crate . It was stolen along with several other crates all full of ammo, in excess of 10K RDS. and two complete issues of field gear.
What a pitty!!!
All my “best wishes” go to the new owners then!
[quote]I do not think this ammo was intended for commercial sale in the US. A case or two showed up with other Egyptian ammo in Mil Surplus that came into the US 4 or 5 years ago. I got my boxes from a shooter who had one case which came with his buy of a number of cases of Arabic marked Egyptian ammo, or that is the story as I remember it that came with the ammo and the boxes. he had shot up most of it, but had saved the empty boxes and sent me a number of them. He did initiate another thread on this subject which likely provides more data.
Lew, I can add that this ammunition was available from Century Arms on February 2009. It was described as:
Product ID: AM1386
7.62x39 Egypt Ball Ammo
Egypt 7.62x39 Ball Ammo. Non-Corrosive, 90’s Manufacturing, 50rd Boxes & 1000rd Case. Sold in Cases Only
Never saw a 1000 Rd. crate, only the 2000 Rd. ones
Charles. J. Wells (Jack)
Sgm. USA. Ret.