Egyptian Shoubra sub calibre spotter rounds for Yugoslav M57 Anti-tank launcher

I asked this question in the Greener police shells thread, but thought I would make a separate thread for more exposure.

Can anyone identify the two cartridges on the right in this image? I mean the ones that look like long shotshells with round nose bullets.

I assume that the image was taken in one photograph with all of the cartridges arranged. That makes them look too long for standard 12 Gauge, and too big for .410.

If Abraham reads this post, is it possible for you to make out any of the Arabic writing on the cases? Unfortunately the image is not originally mine so I do not have any way to make it clearer.

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These are 20mm subcaliber spotting rounds of Yugoslav design. Used in the Yugoslav M57 AT launcher.
The Yugoslav designation for the round is M65.

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Thanks EOD for the quick reply.

Can anyone post a clearer photo of an Egyptian made example?

Here is a page from a Shoubra catalog that might be of some help.

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Thanks for the image!

How many pages are in that catalogue, and how much work would it be to scan? I would be interested in seeing the rest of it.

Were the cases based on 12 Gauge shotshells?

Yes, like the Yugo original it is 12GA.

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Here is the complete catalog.






















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Thanks for the images. The weapon names look like they were written by someone who did not know what they were actually looking at. For example a 14.5mm Mod 1954 r type KnB is obviously a copy of the Cyrillic script KPV.

The 12.7x99 mm is also listed as being for the M/C Gun (Twin Barrel) Mod. UT. ICA NY USA. They obviously copied that from a .50 M2 machine gun made by Savage Arms Corp.

Was there ever a Degtyarov machine gun chambered for 7.62x39? I notice that the catalogue lists that calibre as being for the Light M/c gun (Diechtiariow) M od Q A 425 - 1954 r.

Also, is there an Egyptian made 7.62x39 machine gun known as a Suez as the catalogue claims?

Yes, the RPD.

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I don’t know how I missed that. I was posting here in between other tasks.

No worries, it happens to all of us.

I am making the presumption that ‘M/C’ means ‘Machine Gun’, is that correct?

Thanks.

“M/C” seems to refer to “Machine Gun”, but then why write “M/C gun” (machine gun gun). I assume the original Egyptian text has been translated into English by a translator with limited knowledge of arms and ammunition, but I really don’t know the answer to your question.

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I just noticed that the Catalogue also lists 9mm Short.

Are any Egyptian headstamped examples known? If so, I would like to see a photo of the headstamp.

I fully agree!
And having said this I do not know if it makes sense that Egypt language may call a MG a “machine cannon” hence being designated “MC”?

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Yes, there are three known headstamps on Egyptian 9 mm Short and they are shown in Ken Elks’ excellent book Ammunition with Turkish and Arabic Markings. The book is available from Ken at Solo Publications. I can’t reproduce the images here without permission. Buy the book.

M/C = Machine Carabine for Submachine Guns. LIke the Germans used MP or the US uses SMG.
The ammunition catalog is Egyptian, the British trained the Egyptian Army who used British manuals.
The section for 9mm Parabellum shows ammunition as the type used in 4 M/Cs and 1 pistols as examples. Early 1950’s saw the British departure from Egypt.
Jalley

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Thanks for the M/C explanation, much appreciated!

Thank you very much for scanning the catalog!

Brian

Vidar"s scan of Shoubra now an easy to use PDF file:

Shoubra Factory 27 Catalog (Egypt).pdf (6.5 MB)

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