European police duty ammo


#1

Since I’ve been discussing with duqjans about the service ammo of the Belgian police, I wanted to make a step further, and acknowledge what kind of duty cartridges are being used in different police department across Europe.

Be free to post your knowledge, especially if you are working as a law enforcement official.

Cheers,
Like9

S&B headstamp 2017
That depends. Local departments can make their own choice. In my department, we shoot S&B on training. Our service weapons are loaded with Speer Gold Dot +P. Our “neighbours” use MEN PEP 2.0 and PTP 2.0.


#2

The Netherlands National Police is now using the RUAG/DAG 9x19mm “Action NP” cartridge as its duty round. It was first introduced in 2010. It basically is an Acton 4 round.
The Netherlands Military Police (‘Koninklijke Marechaussee’) also uses the Action NP as its duty round, although with a different headstamp style.
In 2014 minor modifications were made to the Action NP: The powder composition changed in order to comply with REACh, and a circular primer crimp was added.

In addition to the Action NP duty rounds, there are also UTM, FX, dummies and blanks.
Special Police Forces (‘SWAT’) have specialized 9mmL ammo available, but details on this types of ammo are confidential.


#3

In Switzerland, Action4 or Seca. For training, military Pat14 or cheap commercial rounds, but nothing is cheap over here…


#4

Hello Like9
Currently the Spanish National Police use this ammo.


But GEO,GOES,U.I.P can use other types.

Pedro


#5

@ Pedro, thank you for your post.

This is the Fiocchi semi-jacketed soft-point 123 grs.

I thought you were passing to the Fiocchi EMB, as I read in some news.

Cheers,
Like9


#6

Hello again Like9
Years ago (6-8) used this from picture.
20180321_112841
But, for training National Police use Fiocchi FMJ

Pedro


#7

@ effcy67, thank you for your post.

Didn’t know Swiss Police uses Ruag SeCa as well.

Therefore, you use different bullet weights for training than for duty, the Swiss Pist. Pat. 41/14 being 8 g/124 grs, and the Ruag Action 4 and SeCa being respectively 6.1 g/94 grs and 6.4 g/ 99 grs (+P?).
Was sure you used for training either Ruag LF FMJ SXF (+P) or B&T Action Training SjSn (a Fiocchi rebrand) both 100 grs.
fiocchi-9mm-para-spsn-100grs-50-stk

Isn’t it problematic, I mean in term of point of aim, felt recoil and different cartridge behavior in general?

Cheers,
Like9


#8

@ EMZ, thank you for your post.

What cartridge(s) do you use for training?

Cheers,
Like9


#9

Finnish police has been using 9 mm Speer Gold Dot as service ammo for years now, for training Sellier & Bellot FMJ.


#10

The Finnish ammo Lapua CEPP Extra is quite famous for civilians in many places of Europe.
Is the Finnish Police still using it, in addition to Speer GD?
Also, which version of the Speer GD are you using (weight, +P)?
Thanks.

Cheers,
Like9


#11

CEPP was used in cal. .38 S&W Special revolvers but in 9mm pistols and SMGs, 124 gr. Gold Dot has been used since 1996.


#12

Thank you for the precision, I understand that you use the non +P version of Speer GD.

Was the Lapua CEPP Extra used in 9mm before 1996?


#13

Netherlands National Police uses the Action NP also for training with the service pistol Walther P99Q-NL…
They also use:

  • Simunition FX Non Marking.
  • FX Marking in Red or Green.
  • SecuriBlank Loud.
  • SecuriBlanc Silence.
  • Snap Cap plastic dummy (made by Omniaplast).
  • RWS metal dummy.

Military Police uses 9x19 made by MEN and DAG (“9 mm, Ball, No Lead, DM51”) for training and for military uses.
Military Police uses a Glock 17 pistol. It is a non-standard version. But I don’t know the differences exactly.


#14

Hi, do you have pictures of this dummy cartridge and its box?


#15

Fede, here’s a snap shot of the box and drill cartridge.
Headstamp is ‘

RWS 9mm Luger’.


#16

Excellent! Thank you very much.


#17

Thank you very much for your very broughtful posts.

It’s very interesting that Dutch Police train directly with duty ammo. It seems like they have the financial means to do so.

Cheers,
Like9


#18

Well, Dutch Police surely hasn’t the financial means! LOL.
But this is the consideration: Although training ammo is cheaper then the Action NP, at the end it isn’t that much cheaper, because the price of the Action NP will be much higher if it is only bought in small quantities. Also training becomes more complicated because a system has to be implied that prevents mixing up training ammo with duty ammo.

I would really like to know what other police/law enforcement departments carry as their standard sidearms ammo!
For example the German, Norwegian, Danish, Austrian and Italian Police, and all the other European countries of course.


#19

Here’s the difference between the old and new primers of the Action NP (First pic).
ZE-14 was the first lot with this new ringed primer (in German: Ringverstemmung).

Second picture shows old and new boxes for Action NP, being Q-15 the first lot with new version box printing.

Last pic shows small manual for P99Q-NL service pistol.




#20

As for training, how many rounds on average are being fired by a single Dutch Police officer annually?