European scandinavian experimental ctges


#1

Here are some scandinavian experimental ctges

  1. I would like to know the official designations

  2. Rarity ? Value ?

Thanks
JP


#2

All four are pretty scarce, but do turn up occasionally. From most common to least common, I would rate them: 7.62x35 Lahti, 5.7x33 Finland, 7mm Danish, 9x40 Lijla. That could change a bit according to where you live and collect. Again depending on location and condition, they can all range in the area of USD$35 to USD$100, possibly a bit mor for the Danish and Lijla.


#3

Third from left in this image is the 9x40 Lilja, fifth from right is the 7x36 Danish/Otterup.

Do you have a higher resolution version of that image?

Is this the same thing as the 5.7x33 Finnish?


#4

There is something wrong with the bullet in the 7x36 shown on that picture, the bullet does not have a silver tip. The original used a CNCS bullet jacket.
The cartridge does not to my knowledge have any relation to Otterup/Dansk Ammunitionsfabrik. The tools for forming the cases from cut down .30 caliber (.30-06) still exists. Ammunition machinery and tools from Otterup were sent to Norma in Norway when they rearranged ammunition production in 1980.
The very few 7x36 made were probably made locally at DISA.
I can almost guarantee you that any cartridges turning up at shows and auctions are fakes.

arma-dania.dk/public/timelin … editid1=89

Perhaps Mr Williams, whose picture I refer to, could comment, we know practically nothing about that DISA project, not even which rifle it was meant for…

Soren

eta: added last paragraph


#5

[quote=“Tau”]Do you have a higher resolution version of that image?

[/quote]

i don’t know what’s happening
perhaps it is photobucket or the forum software but I loose resolution when i post pictures
jp


#6

[quote=“mausernut”]There is something wrong with the bullet in the 7x36 shown on that picture, the bullet does not have a silver tip. The original used a CNCS bullet jacket.
I can almost guarantee you that any cartridges turning up at shows and auctions are fakes.
Soren
[/quote]

Hum!
Could mine be a fake ??
Just the bullet is a fake or also the case ??

All my experimentals ctges are coming from Bill Woodin.
Therefore are you sure ?
jp


#7

Soren, there are so many different and contradicting stories regarding the 7 x 36 cartridge to make collectors believe that this is a Hans Christian Andersen’s fairy tale. However, I can confirm that it was loaded by Dansk Ammunitionsfabrik A/S because it is shown in a loading table made by them sometime after 1955.

I have seen this cartridge loaded in K .30 or Norma Re 7 headstamped cases with three different bullet: CNCS FMJ, GMCS SP and GM Silvertip.


#8

Out of curiosity, I went through my log book and found I have the following that might fit the discussion:
7.62 Lahti
9x35 Lahti
9x41 Lahti
9x40 Lilja
5.7x33 Swedish
5.7x39 Swedish
7x36 Danish (K .30 w/CNCS FMJ and Silver Tip, NORMA Re 7 w/ CNCS FMJ)
7x44 Danish
I know there is some controversy over the Finnish Lahtis and Liljas, but these are the ones I have kept for my collection.


#9

[quote=“Fede”]Soren, there are so many different and contradicting stories regarding the 7 x 36 cartridge to make collectors believe that this is a Hans Christian Andersen’s fairy tale. However, I can confirm that it was loaded by Dansk Ammunitionsfabrik A/S because it is shown in a loading table made by them sometime after 1955.
I have seen this cartridge loaded in K .30 or Norma Re 7 headstamped cases with three different bullet: CNCS FMJ, GMCS SP and GM Silvertip.[/quote]I would (as would Torben) very much like to see some more documentation on the 7x36 since the DISA archives are a bit unaccessible atm. As mentioned, we do not even know which rifle it was meant for, though the LAR (Light Automatic Rifle) is a possibility. I especially would like to see that loading table. Or a box, if anyone has one.
Prices for the rare danish cartridges have been inflated greatly by a local dealer who sets prices where he thinks they should be not where they would be if there was a market.
-That dealer is going broke, I hear on the grapevine btw…
Wish I knew what the ‘Re’ in the hs NORMA Re meant, have only seen it in two variants on 6,5x55, but not on 7 mm or .30 cal cases. The Kynoch cases likely comes from contract ammo for the danish army.
Otterup/DA production was almost all assembly or reloading of externally made components, to my knowledge they did not make any components themselves.
Soren


#10

I was told at some point that the “Re” was for “Reloadable”.


#11

Back when I started reloading in the early '60s, all Norma ammo sold in the US that I saw was marked “Re” for Reloadable to indicate boxer primers.

The typical headstamp format was “NORMA Re (caliber)”. I do not recall seeing a 7x57mm case with just a “7” for the caliber.

Lew


#12


The Danish 7*36 DISA were made for the DISA A 270 Automatic Karabin

There should be an A 270 at the Aalborg Garnisionsmuseum.

I have only seen documentation for a FMJ cartridge in 7*36 never a Silver tip, but if it is a fake???

I am not sure DISA loaded cartridge for 7*36 DISA, perhaps they got it from Otterup.

Lars


#13

-Wow-
Thanks Lars, that cleared up a number of things.
Much of what DISA did, or did not as it were, is mired in some obscurety mainly because the owners were/are a bit concious about negative publicity.
Thankfully DISA did produce a lot of promotional material like the photo of the A 270. That photo looks like a catalogue picture, so must see if I can find it and scan it for a posting on Arma-Dania.
The reforming tools for the 7x36 is in a danish collection. Next time I visit the collector I’ll examine it to see if any factory project numbers (the ‘A270’ is a project number) are stamped on it.
I’ll get in touch with the Aalborg museum to see if a visit can be arranged.
Torben are you reading this? :-)

Soren


#14

Perhaps you can find it under the nummer G10, the nummer from the drawing of the cartridge.
Lars


#15

[quote=“m89”]Perhaps you can find it under the nummer G10, the nummer from the drawing of the cartridge.
Lars[/quote]Well, G is the project letter for cartridges in DISA’s system…:-)


#16

For what it is worth, the ‘silver-tip’ version in my collection is headstamped K .30, has a nickel primer with an impressed NP logo & the bullet is gilding metal clad steel with an aluminum tip.

Total cartridge weight is 269.5 grains. The mouth is not crimped… ?


#17

What’s the bullet weight of the 7x36 Danish?


#18

it is in there tight & I’m not fixed to put it back after it’s pulled.


#19

Pete, the one I listed as “GM Silvertip” was in fact a “GMCS Silvertip”, thanks for helping to correct this detail.

An owner of a DA Otterup box containing K .30 CNCS FMJ cartridges told me that the label says “7X36 mm patroner til DISA”. I will ask him for pictures.

Here is the DA loading table showing this cartridge. Note bullet weight 6.75 g (104 gr) and total lenght 54 mm (2.140").

Lars, do you have a drawing of the earlier 7 mm round based on a 7.9 mm Kurz case?


#20

[quote=“Fede”]Pete, the one I listed as “GM Silvertip” was in fact a “GMCS Silvertip”, thanks for helping to correct this detail.

An owner of a DA Otterup box containing K .30 CNCS FMJ cartridges told me that the label says “7X36 mm patroner til DISA”. I will ask him for pictures.

Here is the DA loading table showing this cartridge. Note bullet weight 6.75 g (104 gr) and total lenght 54 mm (2.140").

Lars, do you have a drawing of the earlier 7 mm round based on a 7.9 mm Kurz case?[/quote]

Sorry, I only have this one drawing.