Exotic Russian Machine Gun Belts

fantastic stuff, many thanks for the posts, what this is all about.

Can anyone provide more information about the 4,5/10x54R “Strelka” cartridge?

Guys, thanks!

Hans

sure.
here’s an excerpt from the book “Machine guns” by yours truly and Tony Williams:

One dead end in Soviet post-war machine gun development, that still deserves at least a passing note, was an attempt to produce a weapon firing sub-caliber, fin-stabilized projectiles with high velocities. The basic idea of such projectiles (known in the west as flechettes – small arrows in French) came from successful development of the APFSDS (armor-piercing, fin stabilized discarding sabot) ammunition for 100mm MT-12 anti-tank gun. During 1960s, Soviet designers experimented with flechette-firing assault rifles (similar in concept to American SPIW system, but without its grenade launching component and with much smaller budget), but later on switched to machine guns.
One known prototype was based on 7,62mm SGM medium MG, with barrel bored out to 10mm, with no rifling. Experimental ammunition was based on standard Soviet 7.62x54mmR cartridge cases, necked out to 10mm and loaded with finned arrow-like projectiles, made of steel and enclosed into polymer sabots. Exact performance of that system in not known, although authors were told that combination of the smooth bore and polymer sabots was rather conductive for increased barrel life - the experimental barrel showed no visible signs of wear after firing some 30,000 rounds.

also, a photo from my collection (this is one of several versions; others had cases with no neck, or different sabot types and projectile configurations)

Thank you very much for all these wonderful pictures of Russian links. There are still many treasures to investigate in this field.

Do you have any idea of the period of design for the 7,62x54R links with the various sizes of holes ? I suppose these are just to save weight ?

Here is another variant of Russian push-through links : any idea what and when ?
From the design of these links, one might suspect it could be used to insert back the fired case into the link. I vaguely remind of such a weapon of Russian origin but can’t find the reference.

Thanks in advance for any comment,

Cheers

JFL

It just get better & better, thanks mpopenker, & everyone else for this great post.

there was a series of experimental MMG developed by Silin in around WW2, designed for tank and fortification use. I’ve never seen any belt for it and only read couple of references and saw some photos from Tula arms museum, but it appears that it was designed to put empty cases back into the belt to avoid them flying around the tank interior

take it for what it worth.

PS The actual hirtory of Soviet MG development is very poorly researched, most unfortunately. For example, it is known that use of push-through belts was actually requested for 1943 MMG trials, and more than half of contestants were delivered thus designed, but who seen them recently?
Also, there is a misterious experimental LAD belt-fed weapon which fired 7,62x25 TT ammo. I never seen its photos or photos of its belt, although it is mentioned in several reference books.

Thank you Max for your comment about the Silin weapon.

Also most exciting to hear from a belt for 7,62x25 ! It would be really nice to have some idea as what it looks like and compare to the WW2 9x19 German belt.

To complete this post, here is a variant of the Nikitin links but with ribs. IWhich is the standard design : with or without ribs ?

Cheers,

JFL

[quote=“JFL”]Thank you Max for your comment about the Silin weapon.

Also most exciting to hear from a belt for 7,62x25 ! It would be really nice to have some idea as what it looks like and compare to the WW2 9x19 German belt.

To complete this post, here is a variant of the Nikitin links but with ribs. IWhich is the standard design : with or without ribs ?

Cheers,

JFL[/quote]

I have no info regarding your Silin’s MG belt, because I have never seen it before.

Your pictures with another type of the belt for Nikitin TKB-521 is interesting. I think this is an early variant of the belt with ribs to increase the tensile strength. All sources available for me show pictures with plain links without ribs as a standard variant of this belt. The same situation was for Shkass MG - first model link was heavy ribed, but then was adopted plain link, which has enough strength, but was easy to manufacture. By the way, the designer of the belt for Nikitin MG was Russian engineer Korobow.

Links to four-barreled air machine gun GSHG and duplex cartridge 7,64x54R.

Thanks Treshkin for your comment on the ribbed Nikitin links.

For Inertammo, are you sure the GShG link is positionned on the cartridge the way shown on the picture ?

Cheers,

JFL

To continue this most interesting topic on Soviet links, here are WW2 links similar to the standard SG-43 but with extra ribs. These links are found on 50-round belts.

Can anyone comment on these extra ribs ? Very first variant of SG-43 belts with stiffening ribs ? or these ribs are present for feeding purpose for an unidentified weapon ?

Any comment would be most appreciated.

JFL

539 81 and 539 82 are known. With hs only specimens with CWS cases.

539 81 and 539 82 are known. With hs only specimens with CWS cases.[/quote]

Thank you, Yura, this info is new for me!

[quote=“JFL”]To continue this most interesting topic on Soviet links, here are WW2 links similar to the standard SG-43 but with extra ribs. These links are found on 50-round belts.

Can anyone comment on these extra ribs ? Very first variant of SG-43 belts with stiffening ribs ? or these ribs are present for feeding purpose for an unidentified weapon ?

Any comment would be most appreciated.

JFL[/quote]

I think, but not sure, that thisi is early model of the belt for SG-43

[quote=“JFL”]
For Inertammo, are you sure the GShG link is positionned on the cartridge the way shown on the picture ?
Cheers,
JFL[/quote]

You are right, JFL. Cartridge really needs to be fixed on the contrary.

[quote=“inertammo”][quote=“JFL”]
For Inertammo, are you sure the GShG link is positionned on the cartridge the way shown on the picture ?
Cheers,
JFL[/quote]

You are right, JFL. Cartridge really needs to be fixed on the contrary.[/quote]

OK, so the correct display of the GShG links is the following :

Cheers,

JFL

Ok!
Well … continue. :)
Plastic link and plastic belt. 7,62x54R.

Very nice the plastic links !

Any idea for what specific use and date that was developed ?

JFL

My last purchase. The star crimp metal belt.

http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/004925/4925060.jpg
http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/004925/4925062.jpg

Interesting !

What is that for ? 10x54R ?

Cheers,

JFL