Explain please


#1

Today ended this auction
gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt … =500350898
Tell me please what kind of cartridges the buyer paid 905 ? Show me please in this lot cartridges that cost more than 900


#2

2moutrage:

THIS IS OF COURSE ONLY MY PERSONAL OPINION - HOWEVER I KNOW THAT SEVERAL OTHER COLLECTORS WOULD AGREE WITH ME.

MANY OF THE INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE ENTERED CARTRIDGE COLLECTING IN THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS HAVE VERY LIMITED KNOWLEDGE OF CARTRIDGES AND THEIR VALUE AND A LOT OF MONEY. THE RESULT IS THAT THESE INDIVIDUALS SPEND HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS FOR CARTRIDGES THAT AREN’T WORTH EVEN A FRACTION OF WHAT THEY PAID. YOU MUST ALSO REMEMBER THAT AT LEAST ONE OTHER INDIVIDUAL THOUGHT THE CARTRIDGES WERE WORTH MORE THAN THEY REALLY ARE. NEARLY ALL OF THIS TYPE OF COLLECTOR ARE WHAT I CALL, “ARM CHAIR COLLECTORS”. THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN TO A CARTRIDGE SHOW AND WOULDN’T ATTEND ONE EVEN IF THEY KNEW ABOUT IT BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE TO SPEND MONEY TO GET THERE, ETC. AND THEN THEY WOULDN’T BE ABLE TO BUY THAT NEXT GROUP OF RARE CARTRIDGES ONLINE. BY THE WAY, THIS SAME WINNING BIDDER RECENTLY PAID OVER 800 DOLLARS FOR A GROUP OF 47 TINNED CASE U.M.C. DUMMIES ON ANOTHER SITE - THAT COMES OUT TO OVER 17 DOLLARS EACH. THE BACKSIDE OF THIS IS, SLIM CHANCE OF EVER GETTING YOUR MONEY BACK WHEN YOU WANT TO SELL.


#3

The seller is know on Gun Boards as “Gray Blanket”.
Check out threads about him on www.gunboards.com.
There are many threads about Gray Blanket in the Japanese Collector’s Forum.
He is well known for obtaining very high bids on very common stuff.
Some suspect him of using shill bidding.
Gregg


#4

Gregg,
I do not have a negative opinion about the seller. I have repeatedly bought his rare cartridges at a good price. But I do not see rarities in this lot. These cartridges can be purchased at gun show for the price of three times a lesser.

Therefore, I agree with GWB. I looked up some ammunition bought by the buyer. The man is buying everything without any system. He has no preference. The only condition - the cartridges have to be vintage. Therefore, at first I was expecting that it’s just business. Someone buys gold, some bonds, but this man is buying cartridges. But after this auction, I doubt in the my idea. The man who wants to save money buying cheap items, knowing that they will be expensive. And this exhibition shows that the foolish man has too much money


#5

Im not a 9mm expert but in this lot there are some very interesting rounds and one very very rare round from WWI Its a copper-washed steel case from 1917 very few rounds are know today.

Maybe the 9mm guys can tel more.

451kr.


#6

I was watching also, but it was to rich for my pocketbook, as I have not been picking up enough aluminum soda cans lately to pay for extra cartridges. The F N 54 box was common and the Egyptian is more so. Also both are lousy shooting fodder & corrosive, especially the Egyptian. That is not what the bidding was for. It was the mixed box. The Pu 8 24, copper washed steel green base German proof and probably the Ex Patrone. Also if any of the WW1 are Copper washed steel or Brass washed steel that was the money.

The two bidders are regulars on this forum.

I also had a friend look at it for me, to see if I was missing something.

Joe


#7

I believe that the person who bought that is a very well respected member on this forum. Maybe he will chime in; maybe not.


#8

You will see about the tinned case dummy lot in the upcoming journal (being emailed & sent out in a few days) as to why that was so rare and worth while. As for the above auction in question, a couple others above have answered as to its value & rarity to serious collectors. Sometimes a serious collector has to bid against another serious collector, and sometimes they have to bid against an irrational buyer, both of which will drive the price up, but things are ultimately worth whatever a collector can afford in terms of how unlikely they feel it will be that they ever see that item come up for sale again or not. In the case of something where it is relatively unknown, or only a few are known, the sky is the limit.


#9

I made for myself a table of rarity for early 9x19 from Germany. But that’s my opinion, maybe someone has other priorities.

  1. The cartridges manufactured for the small European countries in the second half of the 30s.
  2. The cartridges manufactured in the 20s, during the revolutionary turmoil and economic crisis.
  3. The cartridges manufactured in WWI.
  4. The cartridges manufactured before WWI.
  5. The cartridges manufactured during WWII.

This lot contains the cartridges from each line of my list. But this lot may not be so expensive! I am sure
Perhaps the buyer does not like to lose, and therefore are willing to pay the crazy large sums just for the victory.
But it is a matter of psychoanalysts


#10

I would imagine he probably would have shared what was so important to him in this auction, but after calling him a “foolish man” and ridiculing his justification for buying what he loves I can’t imagine any reason why he would want to now.

Either way I am locking the topic now.


#11

I would only add that anyone who has been to the live auction at SLICS will have seen what to them might seem like an irrational bidding war, but then to the 2 or 3 bidders who drive the bid up, they clearly are aware of something very rare and very worthwhile which is valuable to them as an item they do not have, and which they can afford for whatever reason.

We, in the IAA are actually quite fortunate that cartridge collecting is not as popular as coin collecting, which attracts many millionaires who are willing to create very high market values due to demand. Many of the cartridges which we know to be worth $200 or $300 are actually far more scarce than certain coins which are valued at $10,000 or even $1000,000 due to demand. So we have it pretty good. If the rare cartridge in question from the above auction were a coin of such scarcity, with the historical relevance that it has, it would easily be a $100,000 coin.