FA / CIA 7.62 Tokarev & Commemorative


#1

In the mid 1950s, Frankford Arsenal made a short run of 7.62x25 Tokarev cartridges for “some agency” in the US government. They are very difficult to identify and also very scarce. The souvenir commemorative cartridge for last year’s Pennsylvania Cartridge Collectors Show, held each August in Morgantown-PA, was a blue, anodized aluminum dummy Tokarev cartridge made using the actual Frankford Arsenal shop drawing. FA had an interesting clandestine designation for the rounds, and the dummy has a dated PACC headstamp. We have a few of these left, available for $15.00 shipped(overseas Airmail a bit extra). E-mail or PM me if you are interested.
Jon.


#2

Very interesting.
Has somebody images of the FA made cartridge or the drawing?


#3

There are a small number of legitimate examples, in a few variations, in collections, but none are headstamped and they were made to duplicate Soviet production. I have a copy of the shop drawing and I have found reference to the rounds in a certain “govenment agency’s” equipment catalog. Arsenal employees who were in the position to know have confirmed all the info I have. I was asked to refrain from publishing more as a book is in-the-works that will include this cartridge.
I am hoping that the authors are able to get their new volume out soon.


#4

Thanks, and what kind of book will it be then? On weapons, ammo or the CIA?


#5

I can’t speak for the authors, but their first 2 volumes were on US ammo, so I 'm sure volume 3 will be also.


#6

You are very diplomatic in the way you found to still tell me what I wanted to know. Thanks.

Does anybody know approximately when the book will be published?


#7

Insh’Allah.


#8

Still some of the commemorative dummies left, happy to ship them anywhere.

I’d also like to hear if anyone has any further knowledge of the FA Tokarev rounds, their 70 round cartons, or any variations.


#9

Some years ago I picked up a draw-set of the 7.62mm T made by FA for the Agency. These came from the retired US Army Colonel who ran both the FA 9.62T and 9mmP efforts for the agency. The photos below show the draw set and the bases-as Jon C said, no headstamps. Also pictured is the label on the packet.


The packet reads: Samples of
FA T-67 Components
7 Nov 57,
and at the bottom are the initials of the Colonel.

T-67 was the FA “T” number" assigned to this cartridge apparently.

These photos are from an article I wrote a few years ago that was published in the IAA Journal. You can go to the index to Journals at the IAA website (cartridgecollectors.org) if you want to order the back issue. I is probably still available.

Hope this helps!!!

Lew


#10

Thank you Lew, that’s great!


#11

Yes, Lew, thanks. The round was called the FA T-67 CARBINE.


#12

From John Moss:

Variations of the 7.62 x 25m/m Tokarev cartridge made by Frankford Arsenal exist other than ball rounds or draw sets. The rounds pictured were obtained for me directly from Frankford Arsenal by Col. Dave Hughes (now deceased), from a room that held most of the equipment (gauges, cartridges, etc.) used to check the loading equipment. All are from my collection. They are, from left to right:

Unknown type with odd, long bullet, with what appears to be an orange driving band on the bullet, at the case mouth. The base of the cartridge is stained orange. While for unknown use, this round has been confirmed as having come from F.A. by Col. Frank Hackley.

Case-capacity testing cartridge. This round has the original base drilled out and then covered over with solder, to increase the amount of powder it would hold… It is stained half-black from the base up. It also has a double set of three neck crimps (six in all). This case would have had a bullet in it at one time, and was filled either above or below the ordinary powder-charge weight (and overall cartridge weight) for a properly-loaded round. This was for checking the safety feature for detection of under-loads or over-loads by running it through the loading line and overall weight detector. It was probably loaded with some sort of inert imitation powder or a powder substitute. Some countries have made this type filled with sand, or even sugar. There is probably a companion round with the case stained black from the neck down to mid-case. One would be heavy and one would be too light.

The next two cartridges are simply rounds that were used to adjust the proper bullet-seating depth. The only thing that makes them special is that the base of each is stained orange, they have no neck stab-type bullet crimps, and on the one, the bullet is seated out too far, indicating a need for more adjustment to the bullet seating stem.

The final round is simply an ordinary ball round. The “FA” marking in black is not significant. It was done by me so in case I ever dumped a drawer, I could pick it out from similar Russian rounds in the same drawer

John Moss.


#13

Thanks John, great again!