I’ve found some ammo I would like to display with a gewehr 98, one stripper clip of 1915 7.92x57, what would be a fair price to offer for this? Thanks
You will want to know that the clip also is WW.I issue, as they are no easier to find than the cartridges and as a general thing harder to ID than clips of the 30s and 40s. Jack
yikes, thats good to know.
in the other thread you mention that you collect German Imperial items. Considering that, I think --in my admittedly pedantic ways-- I should point out some facts.
The German army designated the cartridge “Patrone S” without mentioning the caliber (look at any military box).
The caliber, mentioned only in the weapons manuals, was officially “7.9” mm in the army and in the Kaiserliche Marine “8” mm.
You can of course use the metric caliber designation 7.9x57 for the German military rifle cartridge to clearly identify the caliber in modern terms (using the Erfurt convention notation of caliber x case-length).
But keep in mind that the caliber designation “7.92” for the German 7.9 mm was created in Czechoslowakia only after(!) the demise of Imperial Germany.
I have a fre pics of the ammo in question and would like to double check with you folks here and get some opinions, the stripper clip can be seen in one of the photos
The four cartridges on the left with the longer cases (63 mm) are U.S. caliber .30 M1906, not German.
I assume these have the “F A” (made by Frankford Arsenal, Frankford PA) headstamps you show.
thanks for the insight. I did a little research myself and found the s67 rounds to be German. The seller has several rounds, not just these. I’ll have to ask if the others have FA stamps or not.
Your third photo photo clearly shows the Frankford Arsenal (FA) headstamp on the .30-06 cartridges. The clip appears to be a charger for the M1903 Springfield Rifle, although with just a side view, it is hard to tell for sure. The single, shorter-case cartridge on the right is a 7.9 x 57 mm round with type S bullet, and as Peelen said, is German. The other cartridges in the clip are American.
As John so rightly says the clip you show is for the US M1903 Springfield rifle and it will not fit the charger loading slots of a k98.
Chargers made between 1914 and 1918 were produced by dozens of different companies, most are marked in some way but most of the makers remain unknown. Buying these is an absolute minefield … unless you know exactly what you’re being offered. This is what a First War German 7,9 charger looks like;
In this case the maker is known as it came from one of the government arsenals, the “J” stands for Ingoldstadt … but in my collection I have 53 “unknown” markings, most of which will be of German 1914-18 production.
One “almost” definite indicator that the clip was made for the k98 is that there will be 3 small lugs on each side … anything else is suspect.
Definitely a case of caveat emptor … buyer beware.
Peter: Would not the indexing holes at either end of the spring suggest this clip is earlier than 1914? Jack
An interesting question and one that I can’t answer. The two tooling holes are certainly something that is representative of early production, but when they stopped being used, I’ve no idea,
I was in two minds about using that clip as an example but went ahead, bearing it in mind that in peacetime clips were almost certainly collected up and re-used so it’s very likely that they would have lasted into wartime … they’re not that uncommon anyway.
Here’s another from Ingoldstadt, without the holes in the spring.
Is there any information to be had about when the tooling holes stopped being used … and why they were necessary in the first place ? They’re to be found on all sorts of clips I have them on 7x57, 7,65x53, 7,9x57 and on 10 round C-96 clips … I even have a 0,425" Westley-Richards with 'em.
Peter: I’ve imagined it was a feature that disappeared by 1910 or so but have no real proof. Similar holes are also seen in very early M1903 Springfield clips. As to purpose they seem like they could have been used to index the spring at a certain stage of production and later machine designs accomplished the same task in some cheaper fashion. Design often proceeds from complex to simple. Jack
This is great information. Exactly what I need in my search for correct ammo
Peter: My source says nickel plating of the brass body on German service M98 clips was deleted in 1909. Jack
That makes sense, who wants to go to war with soldiers flashing shiny things every time they reload ?
Certainly not the soldiers.
Also, brass is a strategic material, there are better uses for it than making charger clips, but so is chromium and Germany has always relied on imports for that. Does that mean that the unplated ones are also pre-1909, or was there a switch to surface-treated steel for clips from that date ?
Here’s a charger made by Siemens & Halske, probably during the 1914-18 period.
Peter: No, there was interim use of unplated brass, then eventually zinc-treated steel. Those one-piece clips come after the brass body with steel spring types and before the all steel two-piecers. The Siemens and Halske clip is interesting; my only early German military M98 clip is marked E & G, which I think indicates Erich and Graetz. Jack
As Jack already wrote, nickel finish ended in 1909.
The single-piece brass clips (Ladestreifen o/F, = ohne Feder) without a spring were considered from 1909 onwards and entered production about 1914. Soon they were changed to steel, but these were either too soft or too hard to be useful. This resulted in March 1915 in a decision to return to the original clip design with spring, but having a zinc-coated steel body instead of brass.
Source: Dieter Storz, Gewehr und Karabiner 98; see militaria.at for an English language edition.
JPeelen: Those one-piecers also have a bad habit of biting the user. Jack