Federal Alternative to Simunition


#1

Below are two loads that are reportedly to be from Federal. The pink bullet marker round is unloaded and showed up at a trade show in Europe. There were a bowl full on the table of a US company, but the person who picked it up couldn’t remember if it was the Olin or Federal table. The mystery was solved when the loaded green marker showed up which is a Federal product.

Has anyone seen any promotional material on these rounds or the rounds themselves in either 9x19 or other calibers. They seem to date from about 2006 and it appears the project has been dropped.

Note the thickness of the inside structure of the case. I pulled out the base fo the green load to show how it functions. There are some dents on the pink load and the base won’t pull out.



ID of 9 mm Man Marker
#2

Speer (part of the ATK corp that also owns Federal) has a Simunitions-comparable product. I’ll dig up what I can and report back.


#3

Look forward to seeing it.

There is an outfit called Code Eagle that also makes something similar. Claims that IVI infringed on their patent, but is a Mom & Pop outfit and couldn’t afford to sue. Photos of their stuff is in Otto’s book on 38s. Their ad says they offered 9mmP but have never seen or heard of one. If there is interest, I can include some photos.

Cheers,

Lew


#4

Lew - there is interest!


#5

Code Eagle produced shortrange loads in 38 Special (see Otto’s book). Below is a photo of one of their loads and the special cylinder that they also produce. S pecimens are known with 2 and 4 holes in head (2 holes provide more muzzle velocity) and in both red and blue marking bullets. There are also light green cases known. Production was only in 38 Special, but testing was done in 9mm and .40 and apparently there are patents on these rounds. The inventor (Mr. Riggs) died about 15 years ago and that was the end of the development. Apparently the Simunition people came down and visited and shortly afterwards introduced their 38 Special.


#6

Lew - I don’t fully understand the relationship of the holes to the velocity. If two holes produce higher velocity than four holses, does that mean that gas is bled back thru these holes in the head of the cartridge? If so, I hope anyone shooting one wears glasses, despite the gas shield on revolvers.
I wonder why they would not simply alter the powder charge for the desired velocities? Do you have any more information on the principles involved here - perhaps from the patents?


#7

John. might it be that there is no powder charge (just a primer) and the vent holes are the only way of adjusting Vo?


#8

EOD - that could be. Hadn’t thought about it, although you could control velocity by using regular or magnum primers, and somewhat by adjustment of the projectile weight, which is molded plastic. Of course, the projectil would always be very light weight.

That explanation makes more sense than anything I could think of though. Thanks for bringing it to mind.

Still wonder if the patents explain it.


#9

Maybe Lew can tell us more?


#10

Lew,
As far as I can tell, the initial picture you posted does appear to be the Speer “Simunition-alternative”. I haven’t purchased any but will requesting a T&E this summer.

I don’t like to clutter websites or waste bandwith, so if you want to see the factory literature (with only a tiny pic and not much specs), the product sheets are online at www.kiesler.com (LE distributor).

I couldn’t find anything at www.le.atk.com regarding the product (lots of excellent terminal ballistics stuff though), and have been swamped at work. If I find out more I’ll pass it along ASAP.


#11

MWinter and Lew - I suspect the answer is pretty simple here. Both Federal and Speer are owned by ATK. It was probably a joint project, with Federal showing the initial cartridges at the European show, but with a marketing decision to sell the package under the Speer Brand. Just my take on this.


#12

I checked and there is no powder in these cases, just the primer.

The vents bleed off the primer gas to reduce pressure.

Mwinter, I found the picture and it sure looks like the Speer marking cartridge.

The description is:

Marker Rounds
Force on Force