Finnish Boxes - One I can't identify


#1

Here are a couple neat finish boxes.

The first one I cannot identify the loading. Loading A0235 is not listed under the loading codes on the new book out of Finnish ammo. Round has a gmcs projectile with knurled ring all the way around at about 1/4" above the case mouth. Brass case, brass primer, “VPT 44” with a thin blue stripe across the base. Does anyone have any ideas?

The next one is a full box of AP. I did not see any actual images of these in the new Finnish books. All they had as a facsimile. So, I thought I would show one.

Any ideas on the first one would be helpful. It looks like a reduced range cartridge, but why do that in the last days of the war? It is dated April 20th, 1945!

Thanks,
Dave


#2

Dave, it is a short range ball cartridge loaded with the S-284 10.8 g bullet using a gilding metal clad steel jacket, instead of the identical S-283 bullet using a gilding metal jacket. Regards, Fede.


#3

Thanks Fede!


#4

Dave, you can find more information about this cartridge in p. 108-109 of “The Finnish Military Cartridges 1918-1945” and p. 47-48 of “Legacy of the Three Line Cartridge”, both by Mika Pitkänen and Timo Simpanen.


#5

7,62==7,62x54R

7,7==.303 British (Aircraft Loading and use.) The Finnish Air Force was equipped with British and Czech-Made Fighters (Bi-Planes, mostly) fitted with .303 calibre MGs ( Lewis, Vickers, Cz30 Lewis, other Czech .303 (7,7) MGs.

Doc AV


#6

The Finnish air force also used various planes by the Netherlands Fokker company. Most of these were biplanes, but also included in this group was the Fokker D.XXI, perhaps the only monoplane fighter used by Finland before late arrivals from Britain and the U.S. during the Winter War. The D.XXI was armed with 7.9 m/m MGs, as were at least some of the other Fokkers acquired by Finland. Jack


#7

Dave, Fede, Jack…

It makes me so-oo happy to see people are finally interested in Finnish ammunition. The A0235 coded box is well explained in our book: it’s S-284 bulleted BALL ammunition. The stamped letter V after the code means “Vajaalaatuinen” ie. it was downgraded ammunition reserved for training purposes. This box is very late production and cartridge component manufacturing was ceased months before these cartridges were loaded/packed.

The 7,7 mm (.303) box is really nice, I REALLY hope I had had that when making the book… It’s very late manufacturing of BALL ammunition… We already had a consensus here in Finland that 7,7 mm Ball was not loaded after 1941. So this find of yours wrecked our theory totally, bummer (-: Dave, you have my email, could you please send me scanned images of all three sides of the label.

If you guys wonder why 7,7 mm labels were mostly lacking from our book the explanation is simple… We don’t have them in Finland, practically all 7,7 mm ammunition was sold to the USA as surplus in the 1950s-1960s… It took me almost 20 years to find single specimens of each 7,7 mm cartridge loaded in Finland. So, I still need to find boxes. If you have empty Finnish 7,7 mm boxes you want to get rid of please send them to me!

About Finnish Fokkers, they had 7,7 mm Browning machine guns not 7,9 mm.


#8

Mika: Thanks for the Fokker D.XXI clarification. As I originally wrote that post I said it carried 7.7 m/m guns, but thought I’d better check “the authorities” and found the 7.9 m/m reference, so altered my post. Jack


#9

Hi Mika,

The cartridges in the 7,7R box are dated 1941.

I was referring to the 7,62x54R box as being dated 1945. The cartridges in this box are dated 1944,

I’ve liked collecting Finnish munitions for years. I’m really glad to finally have a book to explain some things!

Dave


#10

[quote=“MikaPitkanen”]
It makes me so-oo happy to see people are finally interested in Finnish ammunition.[/quote]

I also like finnish cartridges…but finnish cartridges are hard to find in spain. :(
I have on finnish cartridges only
2 x .50 BMG (AP-T and Ball from 1942)
1 x 20x138B (AP-T)
1 x 20x138G (Dummy)
1 x 20x113 Lathi-Tikkakoski (1939)
1 x 23x152B Blank (reworked russian case)


#11

[quote]I was referring to the 7,62x54R box as being dated 1945. The cartridges in this box are dated 1944,
[/quote]

Yes, the cartridge components were made in 1944, the production of bullets and cases at VPT stopped in the fall of 1944. However they were loaded into cartridges and packed as late as in April 1945.


#12

Rigby,

I can imagine how hard it can be to find Finnish ammunition in Spain. You still have couple of goodies, 12,7 mm AP-T is a good one as well as 20x113 Lahti. However, 12,7 mm ball was not loaded at the Tikkakoski factory, perhaps it’s an AP with tip color worn off.


#13

Rigby: Can you weigh your 12.7 mm Finnish ball cartridge?


#14

The bullet is on a new unprimed case from 1942.